News: Clark has announced that he has started to post old LoS content (in the Media Gallery section), and will be posting more plus new content!

Author Topic: A detailed example: kickstarter  (Read 6152 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
A detailed example: kickstarter
« on: July 29, 2012, 08:55:26 PM »
Rather than saying "OMG OMG Kickstarter you guys wow totally!!!!!!!"

Here's an example of a successful kickstarter roll-out on a miniature-by-miniature basis; essentially a similar campaign might do 2 things: find out who's still in the market for LOS minis, and give people a chance to back the resculpts they crave.

Everyone interested in this sort 'a thing should take a look at Reaper's kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-an-evolution-of-gaming-min

Of course, Reaper are persona non grata with some, and also they're a freakin' juggernaut, but I thought the example might be useful.

Offline Scoutzout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 01:27:50 AM »
I have been following Kickstarters very closely. I recently participated in the Sedition Wars one.

I think its a great idea for revivals, startups(of course). Oger, several zombie board games and some other miniatures lines are coming out.

Taking a lot of notes on the ones that break 500K or more.

I may even take a stab at it. I have had a game rolling around in my head, a little capital of my own...it may be worth a shot to get some additional funding.

We havent seen too much activity on the forum, so not even sure what the status of LOS 2.0

Offline Dave Chase

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 10:28:14 AM »
Well I am still here.

Yes, if done properly a kickstarter program could make lots, (Traveller RPG just broke some records last month on it).


Just make sure that you can actually accomplish what you promise if the money is taken.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline Kindred

  • Overlord
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 157
    • Turtle Shell Productions
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 11:25:24 AM »
oh yes, indeed... a good, FIRM business plan should be required, if you opt to use KickStarter. I've contributed to several (mostly writers, a few games).

Offline grendeljd

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • My Deviantart Gallery
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2012, 07:17:40 PM »
This is definitely a great tool to use... I follow a musician (Amanda Palmer) who broke her contract with her record label a few years ago. This summer she used kickstarter to try and fund her new album... She was aiming for $100,000 and ended up clearing $1,000,000!!!! She had a lot of really awesome bonus packages for a large number of different donation levels, and it all worked really well (I think there was one incentive for a donation of $5000, she promised to perform in your house!!!!)

The biggest problem I see with it is how to get the word of mouth out for it... There may be a certain amount of traffic from people browsing the site looking for something cool to help out with, but the most successful projects are probably by people who already have a name for themselves... LoS used to have that but it needs a big jolt from a defibrillator to get the heartbeat pounding again...

I've been pretty silent of late, but I still check in here regularly. Last time I talked to Clark, he was supposed to be coming back to Canada in July. Don't know if he did or not though.
I hate people generally, but I like them specifically - John Malkovich

Offline Dave Chase

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2012, 10:01:53 PM »
Just a side note: I find this thread slightly amusing being positive (which is a good thing :) )

when this one was not given such a positive thought. ;)

http://los.turtleshellprod.co m/index.php?topic=103.msg986#msg986

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 10:03:54 AM »
Well, not SUPER positive on your suggestion, Dave, but that's just due to my awesome pitch. I'm just a playa, you know?

PS: I think I misspelled "farmer" just now.

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 10:27:20 AM »
It's a pretty clever kickstarter by Reaper. It's clear the original goal was deliberately very low. The pledge that they want you to take is $100 and for that you get a reasonable little swag of plastics, one collector's piece, and a few little nice benefits, you know, forum badge, hat. They "pay" you out of stock they have, production they have, and it's an OK deal that gets a bit better at the first stretch. People like me buy in. Thereafter the deal keeps getting sweeter as later "stretch" goals are met. This works for word of mouth, builds some buzz, and also works in rational-player market theory: as more models are included, you pull in people to whom models are worth less.


The trick is they get their re-tool money now, and then tool up to give you new minis at-cost (to them), effectively making this a zero interest loan that they repay "in-kind" ie., with product, (that you value it, more-or-less, at retail is another bonus to them). I am pretty confident this is how they did the numbers for this... based only on my own wild guesses. If I were in their business, I would copy the hell  out of the basic idea: loan, zero interest, paid in product.

And, every second stretch goal amounts to "Hey, people who lent us $100, lend us another $10 and we'll pay you back in more and very awesome product! C'mon. Ten bucks!"

Offline Scoutzout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 05:39:32 PM »
Yeah..you need a business plan, a release schedule with product on hand to match demand, art, website, demo boards, marketing and team of people willing to do work for not a lot of return.

And most importantly you need a product people can get behind.

Ogre - lots of fans, lots of legacy players. recognized game and creator, very popular. The kickstarter wasn't particularly complex but the stretch goals improved on the overall presentation of the game. 925k

Sedition Wars -recognized sculptor, new game line, NICE looking minis. Clever and well communicated campaign taking over 2 years to get off the ground. Stretch Goals were incredible and wound up being like 30 extra minis. 975K

For something like LOS..what would be the process?
Is it new mini line? Updating the old?
Old Minis re-released
New Rules?
What are stretch goals - custom art is nice. Customer Figure designed in conjunction with Clark is nicer.
New Race?
New Tile Art?

The other thing you have to do is assess the audience. Are there enough old school L0S'ers to drive this - not sure. Is there a chance that new players could be recruited -absolutely.

Just rambling on here...


My thoughts would be
New UNE Commandos -  Commandos - modular so you can create standard troopers, plasma gunners etc. Add a Behemoth...
New LOS Machine - 2-3 Nightmare Variants or a single variant with modular weapons would be ideal, 1 Fiend again with modular weaponry
New Tiles - more theme based like an actual base or space station
Updated Rules

Let the community you establish drive the next race to be updated, terrain packs, etc.

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 07:58:53 AM »
I think something like that, scoutz. I'd get the UNE commandos and weapons CAD modelled. First goal would be to get the blaster and PP redone. Stretch would be NCO (a new pose on the blaster, in essence. Already 3D modelled) and then the various heavy weapons. I'd want maybe new fiends as buy-in options at stretch goals. Initially I'd leave the nightmares and the aliens as-is.

This would be beside print on demand original rules. Any heavies that got unlocked in the KS would also get a downloadable one-sheet with rules and art for that figure.

Assuming success, I'd do a KS for the boxed set.

Offline grendeljd

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • My Deviantart Gallery
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 03:07:58 AM »
How about getting a big name well known sculptor/studio to agree to do new sculpts prior to starting up but dependant on KS? Who-ever that ends up being would surely bring some strong word of mouth & advertising muscle to bear on getting the word out about an imminent LoS return...

I'd like to see a KS campaign fund a new set of rules (on demand printing & downloads), & all new basic figures for sure. I really like the idea of making modular commando figures that can use a couple of leg & torso config's plus multiple interchangeable arms / weapons. New sculpts for fiends & nightmares ( a couple of NM poses would be great). New maps would also be awesome, not just printable sheets but full cardboard.
I hate people generally, but I like them specifically - John Malkovich

Offline Scoutzout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 09:38:29 AM »
Did you see the Sedition Wars KS? Take a look. What you described is almost exactly what they did. I wont play the game, but I jumped onboard. I will most likely convert models for use in LOS.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster


Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 09:01:48 AM »
Yeah I came across that later. The miniatures line had been around a little while, putting up some stunning artwork and models, but the KS went crazy, clocked in at over $1 million. I do think having some top-notch art is a major step, and probably expensive. Studio McVey had name recognition and some pretty major backing in Cool Mini Or Not, too, and of course Reaper is a freaking leviathan.

Nevertheless, I think you could raise enough from old players to get some sweet, modern sculpts for the UNE, who, lets face it, need it most badly. They and the machines represent the safest bet because they're the iconic Goodies and Baddies of the LOS universe and also you can re-do just the Commandos, PP Commandos, Nightmares and the Mk1 to recreate the legendary Black Box. That means you can lavish some attention on them and still have heaps of room to bring in all their brilliant and diverse additional units one-by-one.

Assuming it could be done in metal, I'd later want to look into plastic or resin for the Nightmares and basic PI troopers.

Then Inferno :P

Offline Scoutzout

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 11:29:34 PM »
Are you joking about Inferno?

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 01:55:17 AM »
I seem to remember reading that Inferno sold really well, and what spiked Global Games was tooling up for a Star Wars game and then having the license-holder lose the license, thus torpedoing the entire thing.