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Author Topic: Paint Preferences  (Read 2943 times)

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Offline Clark

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Paint Preferences
« on: April 18, 2011, 05:45:33 PM »
Pure trivia, but years after GG went down, every man and his dog started packaging miniatures paint in drop bottles. Did the Colour Drop System ever actually make it to market?

It made it to market and we made thousands of dollars simply buying it by tge gallon and selling it by the ounze. It was 90% Marco but we went to PacEx and generated ideas on the basis od how to package them.  The same was the situation for miniature carrying cases: he sources a case manufacturer in Montreal and a foam maker locally and voila we have a line of miniature carry cases. The only place where our carrying cases didn't turn us a profit was in Texas because gun cases are cheap, plentiful, and can hold lots of figs.

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By pure chance I picked up an indie horror movie magazine and saw what I swear was Marco's name in it about 2 or 3 years ago. And I thought to myself "How many people called Marco Pecota might there be in the English speaking world?"


That's him. He met Rod who was struggling to print his fanzine and basically handed over half his paycheque so that Rod could work on it full time.

Offline SgtHulka

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 10:50:37 PM »
Pure trivia, but years after GG went down, every man and his dog started packaging miniatures paint in drop bottles. Did the Colour Drop System ever actually make it to market?

Aidiken, Reaper and Vallejo all went with that style...I wonder if they copied the idea or came to it independently. I think Reaper has dropped the idea but Vallejo is still going very strong.

My problem with the dropper bottles are three-fold:

1) They don't preserve the paint very well. My vallejo paints have all gone bad but I still have the same citadel paint bottles I used to paint my LoS minis in the nineties.

2) If you don't store them up-and-down they clog.

3) You're forced to use a pallette. That's no problem if you're hardcore, because you're supposed to mix and thin your paint, anyway. But I'm a casual painter and it's an extra step of set-up if I can't dip straight from the bottle.

That all said, I still use Vallejo paints because they've got awesome World War 2 colors and they have really good pigmentation. I preserve my German feldgrau and Russian uniform bottles like liquid gold. But I confess I wish they were packaged in the Games Workshop/Citadel bottles.

Offline SgtHulka

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 10:58:05 PM »
Talk about the old Global Games Color Drop System in another thread has led me to wonder what everyone's favorite paints are, so I figured I'd start a new thread.

I have to confess that my favorite paints are probably Citadel/GW. They've become such an industry standard that you can find color charts for most historical uniforms that are translated to the ridiculous Citadel/GW color names. And even though they're expensive, their bottles really preserve the paint. I still have some colors that are still good from the nineties.

My second favorite is Vallejo. I hate the packaging of Vallejo and the colors almost always go bad before I finish them. That combined with their high price and the fact that most FLGS don't stalk them (requiring a special order) makes them very, very expensive. But they cover *really* well. And they have specialized colors that are very handy. Finally, they basically use the color drop system and I have to confess that sometimes that works pretty cool, especially when you're painting army-type figures and you need to replicate a specific color mis (that was three parts gray to one part black...that's 9 drops gray and 3 drops black).

I use Reaper paints as well, mostly when they had that three-color system. That was pretty handy for base coat, shading and highlighting. The dirty truth is I don't shade and highlight much, though, being a lazy painter, preferring to use washes and lining to achieve the shade/highlight effect.

A friend of mine swears by the Privateer Press paints, and he's a legitimate awesome painter, so I take his advice seriously. But I haven't really been able to get into them much due to a lack of support at the various FLGS'.

So what do you guys like/use?

EDIT: Legions of Steel is what got me into painting in a serious way in the first place. Before that I painted a few role playing miniatures and some battletech mechs, but I never actually paid attention to things like technique and paint.

Offline Kindred

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 12:23:04 AM »
actually, the only Vallejo paint that I have had clog/dry out on me was after 2 years and the cover wasn't on tight

I still have some of my original Vallejo stuff 2-3 years old for the colors that I use as accents rather than main.

As for the palette... I've always used a palette, even when it was just a sheet of wood or paper... (my painting "tray" is a 2x2 sheet of 1/8 plywood that is literally covered in layers of paint from the mixing and brushing I have done on the board). Doesn' everyone paint that way? :P

Offline Katharsis

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 12:40:44 AM »
Funny story, when i first started painting 'minis' waayyyyy back when, i used Testors! gloss enamels look crap on minis. Most of my hobby experience has been with GW and its what i know so i still stick with it... Army Painter has made leaps and bounds for the average and below painter because all you have to do is paint a simply basic colour and then 'dip' the figure! Its a pretty good way to get an army painted quick and worth checking out.
The P3 system from privateer is good but, to get the most value out of them, i think you need to be an awesome painter - i say that because they work so well with fading and feathering that you have to water them down - i'm a little lazy and like to paint straight outta da bottle with just minor drybrushing and judicial use of inks/washes.
I once watched a guy paint a GW fig with oil paints (like you use to paint on a canvas) and he got amazingt effects for flesh, but i didn't think it was worth it!
All in all, unless the paint price drops and the quality increases, i'll probably stick with GW  because its what i know.

Offline smokingwreckage

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 12:51:01 AM »
In stark contrast, I HATE the GW bottles... at least the screw-top ones. The old citadel flip-tops had problems but as long as they didn't break they sealed and worked. The screw tops in the clear jars when they first came out were terrible.

Okay now.... preferred paints.

I like Vallejo Model Colour (VMC). Good cover, awesome pigment, you can water them for miles - and you need to - and they retain the colour really well. Fantastic range of colours. BUT: they tend to rub off very very easily and they can have behave badly when thinned.

I like Reaper Master Series Paints (MSP). Better flow and very smooth relative to VMC, and they cure much, much, much harder. The three-colour system was great and their fleshtones are the absolute best IMO. However they keep di... messing about with the line and you can't get them retail on this continent AFAIK. MSPs are my favourite paints overall and certainly the ones I would recommend to a beginner or someone looking for something new. The earlier metallics for this line were not great for drybrushing but quite good if you used layers and shading.

Citadel. Hmmm. I don't like how they thin as a general rule, they tend to have too much dimension, and the flesh tones are godawful. However they have some excellent primary colours, very bright and vibrant, and their metallics are the best I have ever used, especially for drybrushing. The one GW paint I consider an absolute must-have is Chainmail.

The two paints I learned on were the old-old Citadel (now Coat d' Arms) and Partha/ AD&D Paints. Of the two I preferred the Partha, I now know this was because they were a more matte finish, less dimension, and IMO better coverage. Reaper Pros (the older Reaper paint line, still in production AFAIK) behave a lot like the old Partha/ AD&D.

Offline Kindred

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 07:51:20 AM »
 The trick with Vallejo paints is a good primer base and then a spray of clear coat after you're done.  I have used the ivory to paint a gun handle (made a steam punk mod nerf gun) and, with a layer of primaer under and the clear coat on it, none of the paint has rubbed off, despite being handled a lot.

Offline grendeljd

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 08:51:55 AM »
Funny story, when i first started painting 'minis' waayyyyy back when, i used Testors! gloss enamels look crap on minis.

Me too! lol - I used to buy odd fantasy mini's long before I was ever into gaming with them. I had a small random assortment of figures that appealed to me, and I had no skill what-so-ever at painting them back then. I DID usually try to use matte colors though!

I was briefly into GW before discovering LoS, at which point I abandoned GW. But from the time I started painting GW fig's to the present day, i use acrylics that come in 59ml bottles that are available in any craft store. They are usually called 'Apple Barrel Colours' or 'FolkArt'... I've never bought into any game company line of paints, not even the colour drop system [sorry guys!]
I hate people generally, but I like them specifically - John Malkovich

Offline smokingwreckage

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 09:15:28 AM »
Some very skilled painters use craft paints but I don't like 'em much. Although I had good results with housepaint for getting a smooth finish on a large area of white (underside of a Falcon Grav Tank).

The problem with vallejo was that they rubbed at a touch while I was working on the miniature. I still use them, and i do this: either mix with a matte medium to give it more stick, or overcoat with Testor's matte enamel early and often. You can then paint another layer right over the top (given a good long time to cure, but that's easy as i rarely get time to paint).

Offline Kindred

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 11:40:24 AM »
BTW: Split and merged the painting messages from the ego topic...

Offline smokingwreckage

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 01:01:52 PM »
I was going to go back on-topic by asserting that my painting skills DEMANDED a place in the largest thread so far! Too much ego? YES I HAVE.

And no, I'm not that good a painter.

Offline SgtHulka

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 01:49:02 PM »
In stark contrast, I HATE the GW bottles... at least the screw-top ones. The old citadel flip-tops had problems but as long as they didn't break they sealed and worked. The screw tops in the clear jars when they first came out were terrible.

To my knowledge those horrific screw tops were a short-lived experiment. My nineties bottles are all coat d'armes style flip tops which are good, but you have to monitor them because paint can dry under the lip without you realizing it and undermine the seal. The newest bottles have black flip-tops that are the best I've experienced. The only thing I regret is the loss of the color-coded caps: I think it was white for regular colors, blue for washes and black for metallics. Now everything's black.

The weird thing is that I recently moved and my new FLGS doesn't even really carry paint, not even GW. They carry a great selection of primers and sealers but their paint racks all look like hardened bottles left over from the eighties. But a local model shop actually carries both GW and Reaper paints. Go figure.

Offline Nukelavee

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 09:32:54 AM »
Given a choice..I love Liquitex acrylics over anything.

You should ask Clark about the exploding paint bottles.

Offline grendeljd

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2011, 09:55:38 AM »
Given a choice..I love Liquitex acrylics over anything.

Liquitex are awesome acrylics, I still have a few tubes kicking around from my college days that get used on my figs too!

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You should ask Clark about the exploding paint bottles.

I'm sensing a funny story...

I hate people generally, but I like them specifically - John Malkovich

Offline Vok Ytalinov

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Re: Paint Preferences
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 07:40:56 PM »
I use a mix of products; GW's metallics, Chaos Black and Skull White, because I use them up fast enough that they don't polymerize.  The only GW lids that keep paint good for me are the really old flip ups on the hexagonal pots.  I still have a Flesh Wash from those days...No matter screw on or new flip up, they will die in less than 2 yrs.  This may sound like a long time, but I'm actually still painting with CDS paints.  Dark Earth Brown and Hide Brown, as well as the greys are staples on my pallette.  Tragically, my last bottle of Storm Blue Grey, the go to colour for parkerized finishes on small arms, finally died.
  I also really like Vajello, both for their range of colours and the drop lids.  I've only been using them for about 5 years now so I don't know if they'll really last... I also have a few Reaper Master Paints that perform similar to Vajello...their Rosy Flesh, shadow and highlight is very convenient.
Liquitex has certain shades that are unmatched in vibrancy, like the thalos, and dioxazine purple, but since I don't do other art much any more, it's wasteful to buy just for figure painting.
  I use craft paints only for terrain.  It's too grainy for detail work, in my experience.
    I use Tamyia and Testors aerosols for base coating vehicles, but have never been able to get decent results with the pots.  Way, waaay back in the day I did paint with Humbrol and Testors enamels...Finally, I always use a pallette, usually a 40 mm Citadel base or a Heavy Weapons Team base.  Eventually, the paint becomes a textured base for a model.