Legions of Steel Forum
Legions of Steel => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Chase on April 14, 2011, 07:55:05 PM
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To Clark,
Since we seem to be a solid and loyal fan base and in several posts you have mentioned how certain characters and races came about, why not consider the following for some start up resource cash.
Allow fans to name a character for X amount with the more the amount the more important the character is in the LOS world
$100, you get to choose the race, figure and name. The history, rank, and what happen to the character is up to the designers (Clark)
$200, you get to choose the race, figure and name and the history (with in reason of the LOS world) and rank up to Sgt or Lt (or racial equivalent).
$500, you get to choose the race, figure and name and the history (with in reason of the LOS world) and rank up to Master Sgt or Col (or racial equivalent).
For $250 extra above any of the above prices, you can determine (with in reason) what battles/actions the character was in and if they are still alive
For group rates (more than one figure at a time),
$500, you can name a typical squad, section, horde, etc of a race and name each figure in that unit. This only applies to typical Planetstorm units. History of the unit is up to the designers
$1000, you can name a typical squad (etc) of a race, name each figure, and develop a history of the unit. What happens to the unit is determined by the designers
$5000, you can name platoon, horde, war party (up to 1500 pts or designers can allow more in the case of UNE troops) to include a brief history of the unit (with in the limits of LOS universe)
Of course there might be some other things that could be offered in this fashion.
EDIT
Oh, and anyone can respond to this thread. I just addressed it to Clark mainly because LOS/Planetstorm is his to do with as he sees fit. ;)
END EDIT
Dave Chase
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Not sure how that would go over. A variation on that would be for a fan to commission new art and tell the artist the name, race, rank etc and a one or two line description, then let the artist run with it. But that would be up to the artists.
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Well that could be even cooler to have artwork to go with the named character.
I don't know what the going rate is for line artwork is, but maybe that could be an extra for the fan.
Plus the artwork would be available for the designers (Clark) to put in future publications.
Dave Chase
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Well, I guess this line of thought is a bust. Seems no one else has any pros or cons or thoughts on it.
(sigh)
Dave Chase
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I personally wasn't mentioning anything out of respect for your idea.
But if you want any kind of feedback, to me it smacks too much of Palladium's shameless money-begging ploy from a few years ago.
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I personally wasn't mentioning anything out of respect for your idea.
But if you want any kind of feedback, to me it smacks too much of Palladium's shameless money-begging ploy from a few years ago.
??
Can you elaborate. I didn't know about that one. I like the Palladium books but I am not a keen follower of the game company.
Dave Chase
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I suspect that Dave is a free speech advocate like myself so we tend to be in favour of getting people to say stuff, even if its not really what I wanted to hear.
How about we leave this up for another week and see if anyone sees some merit it in, then delete it if not?
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Sounds fine with me.
I look at asking questions this way, the worst you can do is say no. ;)
Dave Chase
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I personally wasn't mentioning anything out of respect for your idea.
But if you want any kind of feedback, to me it smacks too much of Palladium's shameless money-begging ploy from a few years ago.
??
Can you elaborate. I didn't know about that one. I like the Palladium books but I am not a keen follower of the game company.
Dave Chase
A couple years back, Palladium was 'going under'. Kevin Siembieda the all-knowing, all-doing, all-powerful pooh-bah trusted an employee and he took off with all the funds. (Or he ran it into the ground himself like the micro-manager he is, by refusing to adapt his games...and then would not accept responsibility for it and found a cape goat....either or, my money would be on #2.)
Anyway, he starts putting out all these notices and e-mails urging everyone who ever played Palladium games to save Palladium games, by donating as much money as you can. For donations over $50 you would get a signed piece of line art by the mighty-super-awesome one himself mailed to you, plus you could buy 'grab bags' of miscellaneous Palladium stuff (read: junk that never sold.)
For those who donated over $100 or $200 or whatever (I don't remember specifics) then you would get your name published in 'The Heroes of the Megaverse' which I guess was just a page, with all the names in a list of people who shilled out the money.
Apparently, it 'worked' because Palladium is still around, but for months and even years afterward, the notices he put out kept saying 'we are doing okay for now...but we're not out of it yet...please keep supporting Palladium...buy as much as you can...donations always welcome....blah blah blah...'
Yes, I used to be a Palladium gamer, starting with Robotech and then into Rifts...but I finally had to say WTF!?? (for a lot of reasons. Now, I admit, I greatly dislike Palladium.
Anyways, these ploys to set Palladium up like some sort of charity organization really irked me and other people I talked to about it.
I know you weren't intending it to be like that, but there is definitely the phantom of Palladium hanging over the idea for me at least.
More detail here...maybe: (I can't be bothered to read the drivel again.)
http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=57048 (http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=57048)
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Ah, thanks for the general rundown. I had heard bits and pieces but did not know the whole story.
I also had Robotech and Pallidium RPG, but I had one better, I have a set of the original Mechnoids, which in my mind is still one of the best things he produced.
Kevin never seemed like much of a bad guy to me, money and fame hungry. :)
I actually got the basic idea from years ago from MMO, on buying a locations name.
Even in some upcomiong MMO's it is discussed as a possible way to buy some fame, instead of buying powerful weapons, armor, skills that make you better than everyone else.
:)
Thanks again for sharing your pain. ;)
Dave Chase
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How about pre-ordering re-sculpts or new miniatures or new books, etc?
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Actually, Siembeida's attitudes were why we got Kevin Long for some art...
Upon reflection, I really can't see the idea working very well. The amount you would have to "charge" to make it matter on Clark's end would be way more than most people would find it worth having their name on a figure or in a story/illustration.
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Actually, Siembeida's attitudes were why we got Kevin Long for some art...
Upon reflection, I really can't see the idea working very well. The amount you would have to "charge" to make it matter on Clark's end would be way more than most people would find it worth having their name on a figure or in a story/illustration.
LOL
That depends on the popularity of the game. In MageKnight and especially MechWarrior:Darkage, we had people clamoring for the right to name figures.
Some of the old BattleTech fans wanted to pay to have certain names for some figures.
(Official, we never did accept payment for figures, but, there were some figures named by players {unofficially} )
Dave Chase
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Hm. If memory serves, Marco asked fans to invest in the company right before GG went under. If those same fans were asked to contribute again, having seen their investment evaporate with no chance of re-couping it...I don't know, if it was me it would really piss me off.
Please correct me if I'm mis-remembering.
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He did get some outside investment, from people who played, but it was as an investment, not a donation.
But, yeah, I don't know they'd be willing to do it again.
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...but it was as an investment, not a donation.
True.
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How about pre-ordering re-sculpts or new miniatures or new books, etc?
That's standard. What isn't standard is to get the money in advance. There might be a program with Export Canada to fund a run of the old figs for distribution into the USA; an export development loan. It would be as little as $6000 for a dozen of each which would be recouped at normal wholesale rates.
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I have seen money in advance done, with the Heresy Miniatures Dragon.
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I'm sure it's done but it isn't standard at the distributor level. They usually get net 30 or something. It's more common in retail but not so much with consumers ordering a product that hasn't even been cast yet.
I suppose if there was enough hype for a re-release and we had credit card capabilities we could generate sales and then do the run for the release date.
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Just re-visiting this idea for a moment.
There is merit to having something along the lines of Dave's idea as part of a kickstarter campaign. The Deadzone game by Mantic currently running includes a limited number of [big dollar] pledges that allow for designing your own character & having a unique sculpt made for it. And some were bought up, even at something insane like $5000 per pledge!
Also note, I now follow Ninja Division on facebook [the studio designing the Robotech Tactics game], and they recently held a contest to send in submissions of your own personal Veritiech squadron design & insignia. The chosen winner will have their unit written up & illustrated in the main rulebook for the game. This was not part of their kickstarter.
I think Dave is onto something, with the main difference being that these current examples are much more controlled in nature than Dave's extensive idea. I think a limited number of options/offers to design your own UNE unit to be used in game could be a big plus for a possible LoS re-lunch Kickstarter.
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I got my idea from 3 places
Been watching Kickstarter popular ones and see how they have been doing it
I know from personal experience (WizKids, LLC) what some fans what for figures
I know what I would want if I had the money to burn in a game that I really liked.
Kickstarter is now starting to draw more and more people to it, but that does not insure that people will find or buy into your product.
So, no matter what we offer, we have to get the word out.
If you check the history there are some kickstarter projects that had to try 2 to 3 times before they got funding.
Dave Chase
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There is merit to having something along the lines of Dave's idea as part of a kickstarter campaign. The Deadzone game by Mantic currently running includes a limited number of [big dollar] pledges that allow for designing your own character & having a unique sculpt made for it. And some were bought up, even at something insane like $5000 per pledge!
These kinds of crazy options are definitely a must! I followed a recent "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit with two of the principals of Autarch (an RPG company and publisher of ACKS), which was during their Kickstarter campaign for their 3rd or 4th product release (which I pledged for), all of which were through Kickstarter. One of the questions was relevant here. Allow me to quote:
wmarshal 3 points 17 days ago
- What would you say are your top 3 "do"s and "don't"s for crowdsourcing?
apmacris 3 points 17 days ago- Do - have the majority of the product finished before you start the kickstarter - leave room to modify the product based on feedback from your backers - add some backer levels at tiers higher than you think anyone will go for
- Don't - forget to factor in the cost of shipping - pay yourself before the product is finished - offer a bonus goal you can't deliver
I think Dave is onto something, with the main difference being that these current examples are much more controlled in nature than Dave's extensive idea. I think a limited number of options/offers to design your own UNE unit to be used in game could be a big plus for a possible LoS re-lunch Kickstarter.
Like the Autarch guys mentioned, having those kinds of out-there pledge levels that get somone personally inserted are important. Also important, particularly for miniatures-based Kickstaters, are stretch goals that end up giving people more product. It's that extra thank you to people who are fronting you money for your project, and will often encourage people to significantly increase their pledges if the perceived value of those higher pledges is much better.
So, no matter what we offer, we have to get the word out.
If you check the history there are some kickstarter projects that had to try 2 to 3 times before they got funding.
Dave also brings up a really good point about some Kickstarters needing several attempts to hit their funding goal. LoS is as close to dead as a game can get, and there needs to be effort expended on revitalizing some interest in the game before attempting a Kickstarter. I've mentioned some ideas on these forums before, and Grendeljd has brought some up to me offline, too. It's an issue I wouldn't mind brainstorming a bit more.
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There is merit to having something along the lines of Dave's idea as part of a kickstarter campaign. The Deadzone game by Mantic currently running includes a limited number of [big dollar] pledges that allow for designing your own character & having a unique sculpt made for it. And some were bought up, even at something insane like $5000 per pledge!
These kinds of crazy options are definitely a must! I followed a recent "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit with two of the principals of Autarch (an RPG company and publisher of ACKS), which was during their Kickstarter campaign for their 3rd or 4th product release (which I pledged for), all of which were through Kickstarter. One of the questions was relevant here. Allow me to quote:
wmarshal 3 points 17 days ago
- What would you say are your top 3 "do"s and "don't"s for crowdsourcing?
apmacris 3 points 17 days ago- Do - have the majority of the product finished before you start the kickstarter - leave room to modify the product based on feedback from your backers - add some backer levels at tiers higher than you think anyone will go for
- Don't - forget to factor in the cost of shipping - pay yourself before the product is finished - offer a bonus goal you can't deliver
All valid points to consider. Some common sense there, but I imagine some people don't put together a good business plan before launching their campaigns. It might be trickiest to avoid offering things you can't deliver. I can't believe how extensive a figure list [with modified bits as add-ons] the guys at Ninja Division were able to tack onto the Robotech game. That was some serious ground-work done ahead of time.
So, no matter what we offer, we have to get the word out.
If you check the history there are some kickstarter projects that had to try 2 to 3 times before they got funding.
Dave also brings up a really good point about some Kickstarters needing several attempts to hit their funding goal. LoS is as close to dead as a game can get, and there needs to be effort expended on revitalizing some interest in the game before attempting a Kickstarter. I've mentioned some ideas on these forums before, and Grendeljd has brought some up to me offline, too. It's an issue I wouldn't mind brainstorming a bit more.
I am wondering what happens to the businesses that run failed campaigns... do they get charged a fee for running one regardless of success? I would think it would be bad for business on Kickstarter's part if they charged a fee for all campaigns, but maybe they have to, to cover overhead costs? Considering how much they make on the successful ones, I doubt they would bother.[/list][/list]
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I believe KS runs on a percentage of pledged funds from successful projects. there might be a set-up fee, but I don't know, it would have to be a flat fee, and given some projects I've seen, not much money.
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I think it is 5% of the pledged money, after collection.
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_41854 (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_41854)