Legions of Steel Forum

Legions of Steel => General Discussion => Topic started by: EarthdogMP on April 04, 2019, 01:52:00 PM

Title: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 04, 2019, 01:52:00 PM
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. In the meantime I would like to gauge an idea on which figures people would like me to produce from the original set. I will have a downloadable form listing all the figures. If you could fill it out as to the ones you would like I can then see what can be produced. I haver masters of all the figures so there is no problem to make casts again, but if anyone knows where our original molds are, that would be some great information. I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 04, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
Without a shadow of a doubt, the basic Nightmare.  That has always been the hardest to come by, and even with all the minis I have, I lack them most of all.  Finding them in blister form was always difficult (impossible?), so relying on boxed set only was pricey.

Sure there are others that are rare (Superfortress, etc), but Nightmares are the basic trooper and from my experience were the hardest to track down...back in the day.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: bobloblah on April 04, 2019, 05:31:07 PM
I'd say that the Black Box minis are the obvious place to start (UNE Commando, UNE Heavy Weapon Commando, G1 Nightmare, and MK I Assault Fiend). It's the minimum starting point people would need to begin playing. I wouldn't go with the Blue Box mix, as the scenarios are really not as well suited to that mix of minis...

As for others? Well... I mentioned in another thread that I am willing to consider crimes short of genocide (as that leaves no one to play against) to obtain more Infranite Lightning jet bikes, but realistically I think you need to decide based on what your rules support versus cost of introduction versus volume versus margin. Or, at least, that's what I would do if I was in the business of making miniatures.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Warchariot on April 04, 2019, 06:59:47 PM
Yes, the basics first, But I would like to see the "latest" figures from just before production was shut down, these are hard to find. Also, to get older players back, some new designs/redesigns. I would love to see these in resin/plastic.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 05, 2019, 08:39:07 AM
I guess the big question is this:  Are you asking what figures should be made for old players sake or for future players sake?

If the former, than sure, I have a list of older releases that I could use as we all do.

If the latter, than you (Marco) need to decide what you want new players to experience.  If you have a plan for next year's re-release than it's mute, but I think keeping it simple and in the spirit of the original 'black' box is best.

I really don't like (boxed) games that try and do to much with it's release.  And subsequently, I see a lot of them fail.  By going back to it's roots, the gameplay of LoS would be the selling point having just Commandos and Nightmares to focus on.  I felt the 'blue' box was very limiting even with many different unit types (and yes, I read all the reasons why it was done, just saying...).  You have a GREAT base to work with...super rules, super minis, and enough variety with other units that releases can be rolled out in time to keep interest up.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: bobloblah on April 05, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 05, 2019, 11:27:39 AM
I guess the big question is this:  Are you asking what figures should be made for old players sake or for future players sake?

If the former, than sure, I have a list of older releases that I could use as we all do.

If the latter, than you (Marco) need to decide what you want new players to experience.  If you have a plan for next year's re-release than it's mute, but I think keeping it simple and in the spirit of the original 'black' box is best.

I really don't like (boxed) games that try and do to much with it's release.  And subsequently, I see a lot of them fail.  By going back to it's roots, the gameplay of LoS would be the selling point having just Commandos and Nightmares to focus on.  I felt the 'blue' box was very limiting even with many different unit types (and yes, I read all the reasons why it was done, just saying...).  You have a GREAT base to work with...super rules, super minis, and enough variety with other units that releases can be rolled out in time to keep interest up.

Thanks fo the input. What I want, over the next year or so, is to produce figures that the current fans want, work at creating new players and produce for their desires and needs and then with the new release making new figures. I do want to keep it simple and will be looking for more good suggestions and input from all of you. THe plan is to keep the existing figures still relevant even after the new release. I have a very interesting idea on how to do this. More to follow.

cheers Marco
Earth dogs die hard!
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 05, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. <snip> I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota
OK, guess I'll start now as my mind is still reeling at the prospect of officially supporting this game once again.

1)  Will the boxed set be like before (same metal figs, same board pieces)?

You probably don't have a full idea yet, but here is my wish list.  First, the old boxed set was near perfect, very 40Kish (and we know how they sell) in components and still very viable considering current releases.  Enough to play all the scenarios and enough to wet your appetite for additional units.  What I would like to see is a freshening up of some of the components though.  Arguments for plastic minis are valid (possible with Kickstarter) while leaving the current metals for future purchases, and possible new style boards.  Unit cards are a must in my eyes.  Every game has them, makes is super easy for players to access during games, and a must have for running games.  Snazzy cards (and QRS!) brings it into 2018 and beyond.

2)  Will Planetstorm be a thing?

I hope not, at least not from the get go and certainly not in it's current form.  Large scale tabletop army/skirmish games are getting rarer, and more often they are getting smaller.  I'd like to see a re-focus of Planetstorm to be smaller in scale (not by much mind you), but a little more focused and easy to play.  Personally I thought the rules tried to do to much.

3)  Boxed set only? 

I wouldn't mind seeing scenario/mini sets.  Call them expansions, whatever.  Something where you buy an xpac and it has all the minis (and new cards!!!) with new scenarios/stories to go with it.  Feel like your adding to the game, not just tacking on blister packs.  Having all those blisters and map packs back in the day was mana from heaven, but it didn't feel cohesive.  The additional rule books were great, but everything felt like you had to pick and choose instead of being led down a path.  Dunno, hard to put into words.  Guess I just like seeing fleshed out xpacs instead of new book + blisters.

4)  Speaking of supplements...new rulebook to combine them all or re-releasing the same books?

Having a master rulebook at this stage is paramount.  Makes no sense just re-releasing all the old books.  Combine, tighten, remaster=perfection.  Combined with above you can then create xpacs dealing with various operations touched on in the old books fluff.  Ex. "Battle for Cake", includes new spaceship boards, new minis (Nightmare XYZ, and why, because they were tasked in defending ships...Commondo ABC, why, to assault inbound legion ships), new unit cards, and new scenarios to re-fight the assault.

5)  No change to minis?

The old minis are tired in some cases, probably the Commandos the most.  Re-releasing via Kickstarter could allow for plastic sprues of the original Commandos and Nightmares (not unlike a sprue of SMs and Necrons).  Would really freshen up the look and tie nicely into the excellent PI sculpts.  Not gonna lie, I won't even consider buying new look UNE/Fantasian/Legion et al minis.  I love the old ones, period.  You take the old mini and alternate sculpt it, I'm in!

6)  New vehicles?

Not important to me, but if Planetstorm is re-visited, will the unmade vehicles be imagined?

Sorry for hitting you with all these questions, Marco, but consider my interest peeked to the max.

-Kevin

Excuse my rambling as well...doing this at work in between 'interruptions'.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 05, 2019, 11:35:14 AM
Bah, you responded as I was typing/posting my long narrative.  Ignore what you may have answered already.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 05, 2019, 12:23:29 PM
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. <snip> I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota
OK, guess I'll start now as my mind is still reeling at the prospect of officially supporting this game once again.

1)  Will the boxed set be like before (same metal figs, same board pieces)?

You probably don't have a full idea yet, but here is my wish list.  First, the old boxed set was near perfect, very 40Kish (and we know how they sell) in components and still very viable considering current releases.  Enough to play all the scenarios and enough to wet your appetite for additional units.  What I would like to see is a freshening up of some of the components though.  Arguments for plastic minis are valid (possible with Kickstarter) while leaving the current metals for future purchases, and possible new style boards.  Unit cards are a must in my eyes.  Every game has them, makes is super easy for players to access during games, and a must have for running games.  Snazzy cards (and QRS!) brings it into 2018 and beyond.

2)  Will Planetstorm be a thing?

I hope not, at least not from the get go and certainly not in it's current form.  Large scale tabletop army/skirmish games are getting rarer, and more often they are getting smaller.  I'd like to see a re-focus of Planetstorm to be smaller in scale (not by much mind you), but a little more focused and easy to play.  Personally I thought the rules tried to do to much.

3)  Boxed set only? 

I wouldn't mind seeing scenario/mini sets.  Call them expansions, whatever.  Something where you buy an xpac and it has all the minis (and new cards!!!) with new scenarios/stories to go with it.  Feel like your adding to the game, not just tacking on blister packs.  Having all those blisters and map packs back in the day was mana from heaven, but it didn't feel cohesive.  The additional rule books were great, but everything felt like you had to pick and choose instead of being led down a path.  Dunno, hard to put into words.  Guess I just like seeing fleshed out xpacs instead of new book + blisters.

4)  Speaking of supplements...new rulebook to combine them all or re-releasing the same books?

Having a master rulebook at this stage is paramount.  Makes no sense just re-releasing all the old books.  Combine, tighten, remaster=perfection.  Combined with above you can then create xpacs dealing with various operations touched on in the old books fluff.  Ex. "Battle for Cake", includes new spaceship boards, new minis (Nightmare XYZ, and why, because they were tasked in defending ships...Commondo ABC, why, to assault inbound legion ships), new unit cards, and new scenarios to re-fight the assault.

5)  No change to minis?

The old minis are tired in some cases, probably the Commandos the most.  Re-releasing via Kickstarter could allow for plastic sprues of the original Commandos and Nightmares (not unlike a sprue of SMs and Necrons).  Would really freshen up the look and tie nicely into the excellent PI sculpts.  Not gonna lie, I won't even consider buying new look UNE/Fantasian/Legion et al minis.  I love the old ones, period.  You take the old mini and alternate sculpt it, I'm in!

6)  New vehicles?

Not important to me, but if Planetstorm is re-visited, will the unmade vehicles be imagined?

Sorry for hitting you with all these questions, Marco, but consider my interest peeked to the max.

-Kevin

Excuse my rambling as well...doing this at work in between 'interruptions'.

thanks so much Kevin, some great points and I agree with you.

Yes the new boxed set would have all new art and components. I am still thinking Metal for now but depending on costs would consider plastics.

2. No planetstorm to start and if so in the future pared down and packaged with terrain.

3. Yes, rule sets packaged with minis together so you would have a starter set with applicable info cards and counters etc. New minis released with printed card info. Maybe Hero/Personality minis with some unique skills but still balanced.

4. New master book would be good. After the release of the new boxed set.

5.The old minis will still be good to use. New poses and such. New units to be planned out and released accordingly.

6.No new vehicles to start but maybe something if planetstorm resurfaces.


I welcome new and more comments  and questions. I especially want to know any ideas on getting the game back out and played in stores and at conventions.


Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 05, 2019, 01:20:31 PM
thanks so much Kevin, some great points and I agree with you.

Yes the new boxed set would have all new art and components. I am still thinking Metal for now but depending on costs would consider plastics.

2. No planetstorm to start and if so in the future pared down and packaged with terrain.

3. Yes, rule sets packaged with minis together so you would have a starter set with applicable info cards and counters etc. New minis released with printed card info. Maybe Hero/Personality minis with some unique skills but still balanced.

4. New master book would be good. After the release of the new boxed set.

5.The old minis will still be good to use. New poses and such. New units to be planned out and released accordingly.

6.No new vehicles to start but maybe something if planetstorm resurfaces.


I welcome new and more comments  and questions. I especially want to know any ideas on getting the game back out and played in stores and at conventions.

Good on cards, good on hero figs(!!!), good on new poses if they 'fit'...metal is fine, I just see the trend being 100% PVC/plastic now.

As for re-starting it ahead of re-release (that's a lot or re-), I'll think about it over the coming days, but chew on this for now.

I think a free starter PDF (spruced up with nice graphics, painted minis, etc) with, say, half the rules and a starter mini pack (4 Commandos, 4 NM + 1 Fiend).  The biggest elephant in the room is tiles.  They are very pricey, but what I've done to spruce up my LoS is use map boards from Wargamevault.  For example, I use Galactic Heroes for Plantestorm leading up to an assault on base entrance using this map: https://www.wargamevault.com/product/151581/Heroic-Maps--Outstation-H97M.  Once engaged therein, I use LoS and the original tiles to flesh out the base underground.  There are plenty of ship maps as well that I use for something different.

Where am I going with this, well, once you decide what direction you want to go with the future tile solution, you could created a self contained 'playtest' map (again, maybe free) to use with the PDF and starter minis.  At that point, you could push the game all year leading up to the KS release.  Maybe call it something along the lines of Expeditionary blah blah blah and have the website release fluff monthly to kind unmask what the UNE are finding as they run into the Legion out in space.  For new players, this could entice them to follow along (and play) leading up to the formal release.

As for actually playing, well, we could run games at local conventions with those items in hand.  Maybe give out some 'coupon' that ties in with the future KS that allows for some exclusive (everything is about getting interest).  I can run games in 3 largish conventions here in PA (Cold Wars, Fall-In, Historicon).  Granted, it's more of a historical based event, but there are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy games played.  I could even create a 3D board of the free starter map to make it visually appealing and possibly garner an award (I've earned a few with my WW2 games I ran).  I still have some connections from when I had my own company/game and could plant the seed even further.

So in short, create a starter package that allows interaction with players, ties into KS directly (Expeditionary leads to all out war!), run games with possible incentive.  More ideas as they formulate...

-Kevin
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: mongol on April 06, 2019, 01:14:25 AM
1. Release the old models as many as possible. They are ugly and may not up to today's standard but people will like them. They are still one of my flavors.
2. Please make the miniatures in metal.
3. Fluffs are equally important. If you don't have the scenario books and templates, I believe that I still have a copy of all of them in my storage. In case you cannot recall, I was the one who faxed the entire black rule book to the developer (forgot his name) so that he could make the PC game.
4. If you are planning to re-introduce the tabletop game, please use high quality graphic and paper for the starter set. It will be more expensive but people want higher quality these days.
5. Best is to have the rules and templates in the starter box and the miniatures separately so the players can choose what they want. This is my wish only.
6. This also means that time line of the game will need to evolve.
I am glad that you attempt to bring it back. Appreciate that you are not going to make the old models invalid.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 06, 2019, 06:35:46 AM
1. Release the old models as many as possible. They are ugly and may not up to today's standard but people will like them. They are still one of my flavors.
2. Please make the miniatures in metal.
3. Fluffs are equally important. If you don't have the scenario books and templates, I believe that I still have a copy of all of them in my storage. In case you cannot recall, I was the one who faxed the entire black rule book to the developer (forgot his name) so that he could make the PC game.
4. If you are planning to re-introduce the tabletop game, please use high quality graphic and paper for the starter set. It will be more expensive but people want higher quality these days.
5. Best is to have the rules and templates in the starter box and the miniatures separately so the players can choose what they want. This is my wish only.
6. This also means that time line of the game will need to evolve.
I am glad that you attempt to bring it back. Appreciate that you are not going to make the old models invalid.

1. yes, although I don't think most of them are ugly
2. yes
3. yup
4. yes
5. I think I will include the miniatures so you can game right out of the box but for the kickstarter I will release a boxed set without miniatures too.
6. it will evolve - 100 years

thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Upper Canada Games on April 20, 2019, 01:16:06 AM
Hi, I've been lurking on here for a long time and thought it was time to finally throw in my two cents.
I've been a store owner, an event coordinator for AoG and Reaper, and a distributor so I've been around the industry for a while.

I think it's important that you make some early decisions.
If you intend to go the Kickstarter route, which I can understand it's not cheap to get it off the ground, then be aware that there are a lot of gamers who are now avoiding it due to the number of failed and problem Kickstarter games that have failed or caused problems.
Also consider that it tends to annoy a lot of store owners. Store owners see a Kickstarter game and know that if its successful then the fans who are most interested have already bought into it, game sales then have to mostly come from entirely new players or supplements thus making it a harder sell for them. Finding a way to make the game lucrative for the stores would be a help.

Going with the old sculpts has the benefit of being cheaper but the original commandos weren't the best of sculpts, a new one or even a couple of variants would probably be a good idea.
A really great value starter set with rules unit cards map pieces and a basic unit for both sides is really needed. Keeping it as low cost as you can gives an easy point of entry and sale for stores then make sure to follow it up with individual figures and/or small unit packs. The idea of buying a section and then adding special figures is a good one.

As others have mentioned, fluff is huge...get the fluff out there. The fluff behind the game and the short stories were always incredible and will do a lot to drive a lot of sales.

Make sure to get something together to try and get players showing the game in the stores or get the store owners on board, this was always a game that looked great on the game table and was easy to show off.
As someone else suggested, a give away at a con is a big thing. When we ran for AoG at Gencon there would be a table running ongoing quickie intro games...join the intro and you get a coupon for a free mini....we used a little sample blister but you could easily pick the most mass produced cheapest mini for you that you can...offer an option of one machine or one commando perhaps. Make your tables look great, the VisiCalc grab is the key to attracting players in...same goes for a booth. Too many companies have a great product but poor presentation so don't grab the attention they need to drive interest.

I would look at the costs and consider the new poly resin for minis....metal is quick and easy for spin casting yourself but the resin is getting close price wise and tends to be easier for people to work with and carries detail really well. It's so widespread in new models these days.

Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 22, 2019, 04:55:27 AM
Hi, I've been lurking on here for a long time and thought it was time to finally throw in my two cents.
I've been a store owner, an event coordinator for AoG and Reaper, and a distributor so I've been around the industry for a while.

I think it's important that you make some early decisions.
If you intend to go the Kickstarter route, which I can understand it's not cheap to get it off the ground, then be aware that there are a lot of gamers who are now avoiding it due to the number of failed and problem Kickstarter games that have failed or caused problems.
Also consider that it tends to annoy a lot of store owners. Store owners see a Kickstarter game and know that if its successful then the fans who are most interested have already bought into it, game sales then have to mostly come from entirely new players or supplements thus making it a harder sell for them. Finding a way to make the game lucrative for the stores would be a help.

Going with the old sculpts has the benefit of being cheaper but the original commandos weren't the best of sculpts, a new one or even a couple of variants would probably be a good idea.
A really great value starter set with rules unit cards map pieces and a basic unit for both sides is really needed. Keeping it as low cost as you can gives an easy point of entry and sale for stores then make sure to follow it up with individual figures and/or small unit packs. The idea of buying a section and then adding special figures is a good one.

As others have mentioned, fluff is huge...get the fluff out there. The fluff behind the game and the short stories were always incredible and will do a lot to drive a lot of sales.

Make sure to get something together to try and get players showing the game in the stores or get the store owners on board, this was always a game that looked great on the game table and was easy to show off.
As someone else suggested, a give away at a con is a big thing. When we ran for AoG at Gencon there would be a table running ongoing quickie intro games...join the intro and you get a coupon for a free mini....we used a little sample blister but you could easily pick the most mass produced cheapest mini for you that you can...offer an option of one machine or one commando perhaps. Make your tables look great, the VisiCalc grab is the key to attracting players in...same goes for a booth. Too many companies have a great product but poor presentation so don't grab the attention they need to drive interest.

I would look at the costs and consider the new poly resin for minis....metal is quick and easy for spin casting yourself but the resin is getting close price wise and tends to be easier for people to work with and carries detail really well. It's so widespread in new models these days.

Hi UCG, thanks very much for the input.

I know that stores would not be very happy about a kickstarter campaign as it cuts into the sales at stores. Likely, I think, many stores would not even consider carrying the game. I don't have the funds to launch it without enough sales so at this point it is the only way to re-release it. Perhaps if there was a system where stores could promote the product and get a cut of any KS sales that were made through their customer base.

What would you consider to be a good price for a starter set?

We will need to start doing larger cons once the finances are there but in the meantime we want to re-develop a following who would be interested in showcasing the game at smaller cons. We should have pieces to buy so new fans can actually buy it and play after trying it out. THe plan is to make the rules available for free download and have miniatures for sale but to kick it all off  the idea would be to create a generic template pack available through kickstarter which allows us to finance a template run for future players. In the kickstart template pack launch we would give links to the free rules and also give a bonus LOS counters package, allowing for people to essentially get the whole game for the price of the tempate packs. From there they can play with the chits but upgrade to miniatures when they like.

Have you any insight into manufacturers of resin miniatures?

thanks again and I hope to hear more form you.

sincerely,

Marco Pecota
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Kindred on April 22, 2019, 03:28:21 PM
on the subject of retailers...

one thing that I have seen some kickstarters do is to offer a "retailer package" in the kickstarter...    e.g. 10 copies for a discount that lets the retailer sell at a markup.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 23, 2019, 09:33:40 AM
on the subject of retailers...

one thing that I have seen some kickstarters do is to offer a "retailer package" in the kickstarter...    e.g. 10 copies for a discount that lets the retailer sell at a markup.

Agreed, retailers could get decent KS pricing, but the draw is that they would also be getting and KS exclusives.  I know with Hellboy there was a lot of retailers that bought into it and it worked well for them.  Sure there were a few complainers, but it was clearly spelled out during the campaign.

I will re-iterate my original comment that getting some type of intro package produced (ex 4x Commandos, 5x Nightmares + Fiend & basic/quick-start rules/scenarios) would help us push something at cons.  If you tie it into some fluff piece like I originally mentioned (first foray/expedition into space to see why base/colony disappeared), then you can build on that during the coming months and make the KS boxed game the culmination of that.  This would re-introduce all the great background you have, and build  a timeline with the releases.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Upper Canada Games on April 23, 2019, 10:45:40 PM
Hi, in terms of kick starters I understand completely I just wanted to pass on what I've been hearing from some stores. The suggestion of the retailer pack is a good one, keep it small with a few sets for retail and maybe a few extras only available through retailers to make it a draw to go to stores.

For conventions, the best thing you can do is even just get some people there to set up some great looking tables (hurst arts tech walls with a little work would make for a spectacular table, talk to the terrain companies about cross promos we did this all the time and I have a few great terrain painters in my contacts list), Gamers wandering the halls for a game will always want to look at a great table...run pick up demo games etc. and you can get some publicity before you are even attending. Players coming back from the big cons are a quick way to get the name out.

For manufacturers let me check around. I know several smaller companies playing around with plastics and resins (see the recent heavy gear redesign to plastic box sets).
I'll check around and see if there are any that are recommended for you.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 24, 2019, 06:28:35 AM
on the subject of retailers...

one thing that I have seen some kickstarters do is to offer a "retailer package" in the kickstarter...    e.g. 10 copies for a discount that lets the retailer sell at a markup.

Agreed, retailers could get decent KS pricing, but the draw is that they would also be getting and KS exclusives.  I know with Hellboy there was a lot of retailers that bought into it and it worked well for them.  Sure there were a few complainers, but it was clearly spelled out during the campaign.

I will re-iterate my original comment that getting some type of intro package produced (ex 4x Commandos, 5x Nightmares + Fiend & basic/quick-start rules/scenarios) would help us push something at cons.  If you tie it into some fluff piece like I originally mentioned (first foray/expedition into space to see why base/colony disappeared), then you can build on that during the coming months and make the KS boxed game the culmination of that.  This would re-introduce all the great background you have, and build  a timeline with the releases.
Thanks Karpov. KS pricing for retailers sounds very good. I agree with the compact starter set. What scenarios do you suggest would work well with half of the figures or should we make a new one? I am working on a clean set of rules right now as well as a prinable counter sheet. Also working on some quick start rules for younger or inexperienced miniatures wargaming players.

cheers Marco Pecota
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 24, 2019, 06:31:40 AM
Hi, in terms of kick starters I understand completely I just wanted to pass on what I've been hearing from some stores. The suggestion of the retailer pack is a good one, keep it small with a few sets for retail and maybe a few extras only available through retailers to make it a draw to go to stores.

For conventions, the best thing you can do is even just get some people there to set up some great looking tables (hurst arts tech walls with a little work would make for a spectacular table, talk to the terrain companies about cross promos we did this all the time and I have a few great terrain painters in my contacts list), Gamers wandering the halls for a game will always want to look at a great table...run pick up demo games etc. and you can get some publicity before you are even attending. Players coming back from the big cons are a quick way to get the name out.

For manufacturers let me check around. I know several smaller companies playing around with plastics and resins (see the recent heavy gear redesign to plastic box sets).
I'll check around and see if there are any that are recommended for you.
thanks UCG, some great advice. What are the big cons now days, other than Gencon?

Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 24, 2019, 07:51:30 AM

Thanks Karpov. KS pricing for retailers sounds very good. I agree with the compact starter set. What scenarios do you suggest would work well with half of the figures or should we make a new one? I am working on a clean set of rules right now as well as a prinable counter sheet. Also working on some quick start rules for younger or inexperienced miniatures wargaming players.

cheers Marco Pecota

Personally, I'd like to see something along the lines of a 2-sided folded map with a NEW scenario for each side.  Not unlike clix games and the like.  If you go with a couple scenarios on the side of 'first contact' then they can help tell a story leading up to the box set as well.  A primer if you will.  Years ago when Sedition Wars was being promoted, they used a color paper map with a demo scenario printed on it.  Fully contained.  Not knowing what direction your going with map tiles (or other), you can incorporate those ideas into the map so that it blends in with future offerings.

Sure, if we are able to produce a fancy 3D version of it then all the better, I'm just thinking something to get out to the masses.  Maybe offer the map as a take-home promo to those playing the demo game.  Just ideas...  Map boards and tiles are certainly not old tech.  Most miniature board games use them, so I wouldn't think it would look dated (especially double-sided map poster for demo).
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 24, 2019, 11:38:44 AM
The more I think about it, here are my ideas for the starter scenarios.  This is ASSUMING my thoughts on starter unit box of 4 Commandos, 5 Nightmares, 1 Mk1 Fiend (essentially half of black boxed set).

1) UNE is dispatched to investigate a mining colony/space station that went silent.  Small assault ship sent.  One half-section sent down/on-board.  Runs into Nightmares.
UNE Forces: 1x half-section Commandos (Sergeant, 2x Commando, Heavy Weapon Commando)
Machine Forces: 5x Nightmares
Special Rules: like previously published scenario that escapes me (The Gaunlet?), Nightmares come back on board as replacements when removed.  Make it turned based for winning?  VPs?  Get intel from command room and escape?  Lots of options and variations...

2) Once intel is retrieved, plans to destroy (bombard) colony/space station is interrupted with assault on UNE ship by Machines.
UNE Forces: 1x half-section
Machine Forces: Nightmares + Fiend
Special Rules: Straight up brawl, nothing fancy. If Machines gets to bridge/control room, Machine win. Machines destroyed, UNE win.

Fluff, fluff, fluff...blah, blah, blah...can you prevent/stall the Machines expansion plans?

Map would be two-sided, with base/space station on one side and floor plan of UNE ship on the other. This can be the beginning of the rapid advance by the machines through the UNE universe (black box).  They use the tech (or the whole ship!) from the captured UNE ship to speed up their expansion...

Just putting down ideas...
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on April 29, 2019, 10:47:16 AM
The more I think about it, here are my ideas for the starter scenarios.  This is ASSUMING my thoughts on starter unit box of 4 Commandos, 5 Nightmares, 1 Mk1 Fiend (essentially half of black boxed set).

1) UNE is dispatched to investigate a mining colony/space station that went silent.  Small assault ship sent.  One half-section sent down/on-board.  Runs into Nightmares.
UNE Forces: 1x half-section Commandos (Sergeant, 2x Commando, Heavy Weapon Commando)
Machine Forces: 5x Nightmares
Special Rules: like previously published scenario that escapes me (The Gaunlet?), Nightmares come back on board as replacements when removed.  Make it turned based for winning?  VPs?  Get intel from command room and escape?  Lots of options and variations...

2) Once intel is retrieved, plans to destroy (bombard) colony/space station is interrupted with assault on UNE ship by Machines.
UNE Forces: 1x half-section
Machine Forces: Nightmares + Fiend
Special Rules: Straight up brawl, nothing fancy. If Machines gets to bridge/control room, Machine win. Machines destroyed, UNE win.

Fluff, fluff, fluff...blah, blah, blah...can you prevent/stall the Machines expansion plans?

Map would be two-sided, with base/space station on one side and floor plan of UNE ship on the other. This can be the beginning of the rapid advance by the machines through the UNE universe (black box).  They use the tech (or the whole ship!) from the captured UNE ship to speed up their expansion...

Just putting down ideas...

I think these ideas are great. Also the simply printed mapboard would be relatively cheap to produce and get people involved right away. I agree with the smaller starter set of 4 commandos and 5 NM and 1 AF. I am even thinking is is a good way to release the original boxed set but with half the tiles (but a couple of pre printed larger missions) and half of most of the components. It would practically cut the cost in half. Each player could buy their own boxed set and when getting together utilize them both to play larger missions, available for free online.

Anyone up to creating or playtesting these 2 missions?
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on April 30, 2019, 07:37:24 AM
Anyone up to creating or playtesting these 2 missions?

I have created quite a few scenarios for my own LoS campaign, I'm sure I can give it a try...and I will certainly playtest others.

My only question is what style do you want the 'map' in?  Totally new with no bounds, or something using the same tiles as before just in a single map form?  Also, what limits to poster size (so I know how many tiles or 1" map squares I have to work with)?

I'm not the worlds greatest writer, so I will be cutting and pasting some of your old fluff to make sure it works well.  I'll leave notations where I do that.  I just want it to work correctly with the current timeline and narrative.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on May 06, 2019, 12:27:10 PM
Anyone up to creating or playtesting these 2 missions?

I have created quite a few scenarios for my own LoS campaign, I'm sure I can give it a try...and I will certainly playtest others.

My only question is what style do you want the 'map' in?  Totally new with no bounds, or something using the same tiles as before just in a single map form?  Also, what limits to poster size (so I know how many tiles or 1" map squares I have to work with)?

I'm not the worlds greatest writer, so I will be cutting and pasting some of your old fluff to make sure it works well.  I'll leave notations where I do that.  I just want it to work correctly with the current timeline and narrative.

Thanks very much. I think we should stick to the templates for now so existing owners can simply replicate the board if thye like.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on May 13, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
Thanks very much. I think we should stick to the templates for now so existing owners can simply replicate the board if thye like.

I have the maps done and the scenarios written up.  Will work on PDFing them this week for consumption/playtesting.  FYI, I made the decision to use only one 'set' of Template Pack 1 for demo map creation.  Essentially half what the box set is.  Seeing that you/we are leaning towards a demo version, halving everything makes sense and is easy.  Starter/demo boxed set would include:

4 Commandos
5 Nightmares
1 Fiend
1 double-sided color map (using Template Pack 1 graphics)
2 scenarios
1 Starter Rulebook w/minimal color printable counters (doors, terminal, etc.)
2 6-sided dice

Where/how can I post the file(s) here?

I can easily provide a DL link if posting here is not possible.

-Kevin
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Kindred on May 13, 2019, 11:31:17 PM
go to the media section.
add a new directory for yourself link in right nav menu -- add new album)
upload your zip, pdf and/or image file(s) there. :) (again, right nav menu -- add new item)
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on May 14, 2019, 12:03:14 PM
go to the media section.
add a new directory for yourself link in right nav menu -- add new album)
upload your zip, pdf and/or image file(s) there. :) (again, right nav menu -- add new item)

Sounds good, thanks...wasn't sure I had rights to do so.  Forgot my files at home today, so hopefully I'll remember tomorrow:-(
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Kindred on May 15, 2019, 10:36:10 PM
Every approved member of the forum should have permission to create their own gallery and/or upload to the site owned galleries
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on May 16, 2019, 03:19:29 PM
I have uploaded the first scenario for the demo set I am putting together.  I ran out of time to finish the 'package', but hope to have it done in the next couple days...bare minimum I'll post second scenario tomorrow.  Until then, please give it a look.  Bear in mind that this is designed to tell a story, with the second one being the culmination (as much as you can have with only 2 scenarios!).

One note:  The 'gray' area is part of the map I added if the normal map is to confined.  I was trying to creating sort of a congested shipping container complex (aka outpost) with as many open areas as the tiles allowed.  Try it without the gray area a few times first to see if it flows well.  The gray area would basically provide a slightly easier escape route but not much in the way of attack.

Thoughts, ideas, criticisms welcome. Enjoy.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on May 17, 2019, 01:05:37 PM
Added Scenario 2.

Tried to replicate a small ship floor plan.  Biggest thing to test is the pacing.  Having 5 turns to upload data to much/little?  This will consequently effect the departure time for escape pod run.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on May 27, 2019, 06:57:43 AM
Great, and many thanks. I will check it out but I won't get a chance to playtest right away as all my stuff is in Toronto and I am in Spain. My son is in Toronto and will be helping with the release but he has never played LOS yet. Are there any other members in Toronto that any of you know of?
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Charles Marlow on June 01, 2019, 12:14:09 AM
Hello, fellow LoS enthusiasts! I'm a new member of your forum. The release of an updated LoS would be terrific! I'd certainly support it by purchasing new LoS products. I like the idea of releasing an introductory box and a core game box. I like the the way Catalyst Game Labs has released the newest edition of Battletech with an introductory box and a core box and it's been wildly successful. There are some great suggestions as to the format and potential contents of the updated LoS sets earlier in this thread. As for a release of OOP LoS miniatures that would be so cool! And, something I'd absolutely support! I'd love to see a release of the original books, templates et cetera as well. Perhaps, it could be PDF and print-on-demand? Like RPGnow? 
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Karpov on June 03, 2019, 10:25:14 AM
I'd love to see a release of the original books, templates et cetera as well. Perhaps, it could be PDF and print-on-demand? Like RPGnow?

I'm fairly certain Marco has plans for all releases, we are just waiting on how;-)

That said, unless I made it up in my head, I thought Marco stated he would NOT sell anything via PDF.

This is easily one of my top two games of all time.  I dabbled in it when it first came out, but at the time I was knee deep in Battletech with my circle.  When I finally was able to dedicate more energy to LoS it was on the tail end of shelf life.  If/when LoS is re-released, I plan on making it a priority...not missing out on this opportunity again!
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Charles Marlow on June 05, 2019, 07:36:43 PM
Hi, Nightmare! Thanks for the information. I also missed-out on LoS the first time around, although, I wanted to play it but my friends were into Battletech, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Magic, D&D etc! I haven't played my first game of LoS, yet, but I've read the rules & they're ace! I'm still a little hazy on Suppression(?!) but I'll, of course,
re-read it before I play.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on June 09, 2019, 05:58:49 AM
We will be meeting with RAFM soon to discuss how to proceed on the miniatures.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Charles Marlow on June 09, 2019, 01:17:22 PM
Wow, that's terrific news, EarthdogMP! It's super exciting that at-some-point-soon we'll have the chance to buy LoS miniatures! And, I'm glad it's potentially going to be RAFM who produces the miniatures. I'm a fan of RAFM and have a selection of both their historical and fantasy miniatures. So, cool!
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on June 26, 2019, 03:58:45 AM
Thanks and Thumbs up on that.
Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: Upper Canada Games on July 01, 2019, 10:36:03 PM
Sorry it took me so long, real life got in the way.
You might want to check in with Reaper as well since they've been working with plastic/resin.

You may also want to hold on until GAMA, I know it's a ways off but it would give you time to get everything worked out, minis designed or reworked, GAMA I know always has a ton of manufacturers there and usually a few from overseas so it's a good place to get some extra info and pricing on getting models made.

I think a basic into set and a base box set are both good ideas, maybe KS those and offer more for retailers? One thing I've noticed is a trend away from blisters, this is good at the retail end as there is less for them to put on the shelves. Maybe go with small box sets depending on how you go with manufacturing. A basic UNE squad or section box, a basic legion unit box, a UNE command box (with a mix of officer and specialists), a special weapons section (gives a section of heavy and special weapons that can be split up or attached etc.), heavy trooper box (heavy armour section) etc. then you also have the option to do something similar intoducing more races to the fight. It keeps your shelf footprint small and let's people pick models up in pre made sections with unit cards and unit options etc.

Personally I always loved the tiles, I liked the idea of introducing small rules books...new races, scenarios, unit types etc. with a few new tile sets...makes the books especially desirable for the new tiles etc. plus you also have an option to release a tile set separately depending on costs.

Btw, don't know if any one is at Gencon this year but a few years ago I found two or three overseas manufacturers had booths there...might be something to check on, just remember that while it's usually a lot cheaper it also has a lot of potential issues.


Title: Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
Post by: EarthdogMP on July 26, 2019, 06:15:12 PM
Sorry it took me so long, real life got in the way.
You might want to check in with Reaper as well since they've been working with plastic/resin.

You may also want to hold on until GAMA, I know it's a ways off but it would give you time to get everything worked out, minis designed or reworked, GAMA I know always has a ton of manufacturers there and usually a few from overseas so it's a good place to get some extra info and pricing on getting models made.

I think a basic into set and a base box set are both good ideas, maybe KS those and offer more for retailers? One thing I've noticed is a trend away from blisters, this is good at the retail end as there is less for them to put on the shelves. Maybe go with small box sets depending on how you go with manufacturing. A basic UNE squad or section box, a basic legion unit box, a UNE command box (with a mix of officer and specialists), a special weapons section (gives a section of heavy and special weapons that can be split up or attached etc.), heavy trooper box (heavy armour section) etc. then you also have the option to do something similar intoducing more races to the fight. It keeps your shelf footprint small and let's people pick models up in pre made sections with unit cards and unit options etc.

Personally I always loved the tiles, I liked the idea of introducing small rules books...new races, scenarios, unit types etc. with a few new tile sets...makes the books especially desirable for the new tiles etc. plus you also have an option to release a tile set separately depending on costs.

Btw, don't know if any one is at Gencon this year but a few years ago I found two or three overseas manufacturers had booths there...might be something to check on, just remember that while it's usually a lot cheaper it also has a lot of potential issues.

hey, sorry for the late response but thanks so much for all the info. If I KS, what are the things I should do to remain retailer friendly. I want it to make sens for retailers to carry and support the game.