Legions of Steel Forum

Legions of Steel => Painting, Conversions and Modelling => Topic started by: Dave Chase on February 14, 2011, 04:26:25 PM

Title: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on February 14, 2011, 04:26:25 PM
So, if Official LOS miniatures (3D type) are not going to be available for a while (assumption), would you be interested (willing) to have figures like GURPS Card board heroes (2D type)?

Or would you want miniatures so much that you would be willing to use non-LOS figures if there were rules for conversion or ways to stat them for the miniature/table top game?

Or both?


Me, personally, I want the game back. Then if no miniatures available I would want both some conversion rules and cardboard heroes figures. If not in the base rules at least as one of the first supplements.
Or even on line for free (website with charts, maybe even a engine that does the work for you, if you click/select your options.

Dave Chase 
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Vile on February 15, 2011, 08:21:33 AM
I dunno, I've always been pretty happy to use different figures and pretend if I couldn't get exactly what I wanted. I still have plenty of Citadel and Grenadier 25mm SF figures, enough for small-scale skirmishing, anyway. I'd rather use those than 2D cardboard heroes.

Ideally, of course, someone would restart the proper figure lines.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on February 15, 2011, 09:41:13 AM
I actually have both the leaded version and the unleaded version. (I can't place my hands on the boxes though.)

I only bought the unleaded version because the store I was at only had 1 leaded version (the one I bought :) ).

The 2D figures are not bad for introducing the game. 3D is always cooler though.

If a 2D figure system is generated to help implement the game, I would like to suggest that non-colored ones be available for download (on an official website) so that players could download and color their own.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Vile on February 15, 2011, 10:16:48 AM
If a 2D figure system is generated to help implement the game, I would like to suggest that non-colored ones be available for download (on an official website) so that players could download and color their own.
Definitely, with basic graphics software becoming cheaper and easier to use, it's a snip to make pretty decent coloured figures if you have the line art. Probably better if they are JPG or PNG rather than PDF, though.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on February 15, 2011, 12:30:42 PM
For a while there we had Legions of Steel Unleaded which had cardboard standups and bases like what we used for the doors.  It was never particularly popular because of the price point.  I'm not sure if I still have the graphics files for the stand ups. 
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: bobloblah on February 15, 2011, 12:56:45 PM
I'd be interested to know what you mean by "the price point."  To me, the issue with the price was that the "leaded" version was so inexpensive for what you got, why wouldn't you pick it over the "unleaded" copy with paper standups? You either had to be extremely strapped for cash, only want the non-miniature components, or simply not like miniatures. Anecdotally, I've seen far more copies of the "unleaded" version of the game show up in Brazil, which perhaps speaks to the first possibility.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on February 15, 2011, 04:47:38 PM
Hmm. If you do find the art files that would be cool.
Even the art files used for the figure stat cards (the blocks of information on each figure found in the books.)

Then maybe we (you Clark ;) ) could post them up for us the fans to play with a bit to make color figures and avators.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on February 15, 2011, 06:40:03 PM
We couldn't price the metal box set much higher than we did (about $60) and we couldn't price the unleaded version much lower than $40 or we were losing money.  So yes, for the difference of $20 or $30 anyone who was in it for the miniatures would obviously not go unleaded, but people not into miniatures wouldn't be too keen on paying $40 for a board game (15 years ago).
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: SgtHulka on February 16, 2011, 12:36:08 PM
That original boxed set with the over one pound of lead sticker was such a bargain back in the day.

Much as I appreciated the consolidated/cleaned up rules of the later blue box, I lamented the loss of sheer value in that first set. (and I also wasn't so keen on the hodge-podge nature of the blue box units but that's a sepereate issue)
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on February 16, 2011, 09:52:16 PM
Yeah the Black Box was awesome.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on February 17, 2011, 04:01:00 PM
What happened with the Blue Box miniature selection was due to a big marketing gaffe known as the "Rack Deal".  It was a custom designed rack holding a broad selection of LOS products that we gave to retailers on very favourable terms so they actually didn't have to pay us the full price of the products for months.  We got a huge order when the pay date rolled around many of the retailers returned the package, some of them left unopened.  So we got stuck with a huge amount of inventory.  Marco changed the figure mix for the Blue Box to use figures that we had on hand rather than having to make more troopers, Nightmares and Fiends.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on February 18, 2011, 01:25:56 AM
These days you'd use the (presumably extant) molds and just sell direct via the 'net. Not having to master and mold everything would mean relatively low overheads.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: bobloblah on February 18, 2011, 02:21:48 PM
How difficult would it be to get the tooling from Global Games Europe at this point? I know I tried repeatedly to open a conversation with them about buying the moulds when they took them out of production, but couldn't get any response from them. In fact, the only response I've ever had from them was during a PayPal dispute recently over miniatures they never shipped to me; they clammed up again when it became crystal clear that they had zero proof that they weren't ripping me off.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on February 18, 2011, 04:08:46 PM
Gee, where to start?

Marco has the masters. I was going to contact RAFM to see if they wanted to work together again once I figure out how it will all work. Back in the day it was simple: we contracted them to do the miniatures, then we warehoused and distributed the figs ourselves. That won't work now because we don't have a warehouse and I wanted to use network distribution rather than the standard channels.

As far as I can tell, when Global Games Europe went under, Amazon Miniatures in the UK bought the moulds from the liquidator. I was contacted by someone there but communication ceased when I brought up the issue of royalties. Of course, buying the molds doesn't mean you get a free copyright license, just like if you got your hands on a rock group's master recording you couldn't burn and sell CDs. They have LOS listed on their website but I don't exactly know what they are up to. And I don't have the money right now to hire a solicitor in Manchester to get to the bottom of things.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: bobloblah on February 19, 2011, 12:48:48 AM
Yeah, sorry...when I said Global Games Europe, I was referring to Amazon Miniatures. I actually thought that they were one in the same. It's Amazon I've had problems with, so I'd suggest caution. As for copyright, I wasn't looking to produce and sell, but was interested for my own purposes.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on February 19, 2011, 03:07:19 AM
I certainly didn't think that anyone here would be trying to pirate LOS figures.  And I haven't been ranting about Amazon or dissuading anyone from ordering from them because I don't have all the intel to make any accusations.

But to get back on track, I don't seem to have an image file for the standups.  Perhaps Marco still has the original artwork. I'll check with him.

At one point we created a demo pack which included some map templates, 4-5 figs per side, an set of rules but with only one or two scenarios. This only comes to mind because of what seems to be the underlying purpose of having 2D standups: to attract new players.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: HardRock on February 19, 2011, 03:39:29 AM
I have two 'Leaded" black boxes and one "unleaded" black box, when the store I worked at went Out of Business (50% off) for more tiles. A blue box off of ebay later on. Most of my figures came from ebay, including two S1 Arch Fiends. Not that I have found a use for two of them, but I couldn't resist the price on either.

Henry
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on February 19, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
...

But to get back on track, I don't seem to have an image file for the standups.  Perhaps Marco still has the original artwork. I'll check with him.
Vile and I know several artists who might be able to (and have time to) do some new artwork if you need it. (Well, Vile knows more currently active artists than I do. ;) )
Quote
At one point we created a demo pack which included some map templates, 4-5 figs per side, an set of rules but with only one or two scenarios. This only comes to mind because of what seems to be the underlying purpose of having 2D standups: to attract new players.
Yes in part, but if it will be a while before any 3D figures particular to LOS/Planetstorm will be released, it would nice to have them available as 2D figures. (It could also help keep the spirit alive in some players knowing that they will have new figures available.)

Not sure how much line (B&W) drawings cost, but (stand back Dave has an idea; for the weak at heart, take cover ;) )
it might be possible to have several different front/back views of each figure so that in the downloadable 2D figures, players could choose which image they want for their army.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Scoutzout on March 02, 2011, 02:01:43 AM
Paper stand up figures have come a long way and can certainly fill the gap in attracting new players to the game.


If you take a look at places like One Monk Miniatures and review the galleries, you will be amazed at the detail, shapes and options a good artist can create.


Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: sergeant_hastp on March 04, 2011, 01:37:27 AM

Vile and I know several artists who might be able to (and have time to) do some new artwork if you need it. (Well, Vile knows more currently active artists than I do. ;) )

At this point it might be worth mentioning that we have at least two fairly decent artists who are a part of this forum right now, who are fans of LoS and might be prompted to contribute artwork.  :D
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on March 04, 2011, 07:23:11 AM
Ebbles puts out some really nice paper models as well and worth a look.  Excellent selection of near sci-fi vehicles and buildings and such.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on March 04, 2011, 07:42:12 AM
On the side topic of art, I have some old stuff I did that I could re-work. I'm pretty random, but I have a critical eye and I'm confident in saying my better work polishes up very nicely. If I find I can still hit a decent note, so to speak, I'll post some stuff.

On the main topic, I am very keen to see the old models back in production. They may not create any converts but they will please old players and create some cash flow for assessing the viability of the line and perhaps funding future expansion, new sculpts, etc. Really, having a game already written and thoroughly tested, with a complete miniatures line (it's complete for tunnel fights and pretty good for tabletop) is an enviable position for a "new" gaming enterprise.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: grendeljd on March 05, 2011, 09:44:46 PM

Vile and I know several artists who might be able to (and have time to) do some new artwork if you need it. (Well, Vile knows more currently active artists than I do. ;) )

At this point it might be worth mentioning that we have at least two fairly decent artists who are a part of this forum right now, who are fans of LoS and might be prompted to contribute artwork.  :D

It won't take much to prompt me to contribute :)
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on March 05, 2011, 09:55:18 PM
Just a thought: I suppose I would have to resource the door/figure bases.

Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on March 05, 2011, 11:48:22 PM
I don't have all my contact information handy but I would suggest contacting GAMA and ask them for a list of manufacturers that make the bases.

I know (remember that is) that there was 2 companies in the US (Canada) and several overseas (mainly China).

You might also try Chessex, as they did stock that for years (or at least they still did back in 2000.

I might know some more later after I find my old listing books (of people and companies). Sorry I can't remember more off the top of my head.

Toy Fair is a good place (was a good place as it is over for this year) to find manufacturers of game products.

In 2 weeks is the GAMA Trade show, you could find some there. More like game manufacturing companies but a few distributors and such.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on March 15, 2011, 06:59:21 PM
LOS Lives!,  ;D

I found  a copied image online that I have annotated and posted in the media files.  Read, dowload, enjoy.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: grendeljd on March 16, 2011, 03:23:20 PM
LOS Lives!,  ;D

I found  a copied image online that I have annotated and posted in the media files.  Read, dowload, enjoy.

While I will always have a preference for metal, those stand-ups you posted look great!
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Vok Ytalinov on March 24, 2011, 05:30:48 PM
Clark, I've got B&W photocopies of virtually all of the concept art that was done for both LOS and Planetstorm.  Time to warm up the scanner I suppose.  Likewise, for what it's worth, I was given a master for most of the miniatures which I designed...Includin g the MK 1, G1 and plasma and blaster armed commando suits.  I'm just sayin'...
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: bobloblah on March 25, 2011, 09:54:28 AM
Anyone know the cost of building tooling for those nowadays? I have a moulding background myself, but plastics, not metal.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on March 25, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
Marco has copies of all the masters tucked away. I just need to wrap my head around what kind of distribution model would be best before I contact the Silver Fox.

Casting soft metals is fairly straight forward. Before GG imploded, Marco was doing his own casting, but I think he was contracting the mould making out. Still it wasn't that expensive at one shot. My understanding is that steel injection moulds run in the thousands but have a long life span, but bobloblah would know better.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: bobloblah on March 28, 2011, 09:40:38 AM
Yeah, steel injection moulds are for far higher production runs, ranging from thousands to millions. Generally speaking, the higher the production run, the more expensive the tooling. Conversely, the more expensive the tooling (and higher the production run), the cheaper it is per part. Lots of everyday plastic items we buy are costing the manufacturers a few pennies per part. This logic has a lot to do with GW's sustained profitability, in spite of apparently shrinking market-share..
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on April 20, 2011, 09:35:38 AM
Well because miniature moulds are made of RTV silicone (some might need vulcanizing but that's beyond my narrow knowledge) they can have undercuts, which the machined steel moulds for injection moulding can't have. That's why plastics have those odd flat spots where the detail just sucks. A spin caster for metal casting is a relatively (small and ?) cheap item compared to an injection moulding rig.

The strength of the green, master, RTV mould and spin caster is relatively low start-up costs and very low costs for new figures once you're set up. I can't say what sculpting costs, especially now properly applied CAD can do perfectly good sculpts (that then need to be 3D printed and touched up before being mastered at extra expense IIRC.... but reposing and changing weaponry on an established sculpture takes minutes) but moulds cost a couple of hundred back when I was researching this stuff around 2002AD, maybe.

So, working in metal you might get a new miniature into production for a few hundred dollars where the machining for injection moulds would be 1000s or 10,000s, IIRC, bobloblah would know better (is injection mold the right term, even?). That might mean that the regular release cycle is not only good for your image, it might be your "comparative advantage" over plastics as well, I wouldn't know, but it sounds like it makes sense, right?
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Kindred on April 20, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
well, that's always the point of most games.

Metals have a lower start up cost, but a much higher per-model cost.
Plastics have a higher start-up cost but a lower per-model cost.

So, that is why companies like GW make the popular models, or the ones that have interchangeable parts usable across the board, out of plastic. They have the money for the initial outlay, and the price point means more profit per individual model sold (since they rarely make plastic model significantly cheaper than metal ones)

For specialty figures and figures which people buy one or two of, they continue to use metal...


So, an initial outlay should be for metal minis, IMO -  until the purchasing pattern is established and Clark et all can determine which models are worth casting in plastic.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on April 20, 2011, 12:53:43 PM
$50 sais the plastic would be UNE Paladin PBA and the ubiquitous G1 Nightmare. I'd love to see Paladin PBA get a re-sculpt; I love the old minis but I also think there's a lot of room to explore the idea of relatively hard sci-fi power armour.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on April 20, 2011, 12:57:29 PM
While i think these guys have a few too many greeblies and doodads, they make me think of updated UNE:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-77590103967523_2141_6865363 (http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-77590103967523_2141_6865363)

Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: grendeljd on April 20, 2011, 02:54:58 PM
While i think these guys have a few too many greeblies and doodads, they make me think of updated UNE:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-77590103967523_2141_6865363 (http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-77590103967523_2141_6865363)

Those are pretty cool - I see the resemblance to UNE especially in the shape of the helmet design. I agree with SW that the basic original Commando fig could use an update, although I really like the sculpt of the 'armless' base for the paladin armour used for the PI guys. Perhaps just getting new arms for commandos over that base would be relatively easy to accomplish?
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on April 20, 2011, 03:15:10 PM
Back in the day a completely new fig would cost less than a grand for concept art, sculpting, masters and moulds. A blister averaged about 10 bucks retail so we got 4 and our mark up was about 200% so that meant a gross margin of about $2.50 per unit. On release we sold about 400 units, so there is your grand. Then we actually made money out of the follow on sales.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: grendeljd on April 25, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Back in the day a completely new fig would cost less than a grand for concept art, sculpting, masters and moulds. A blister averaged about 10 bucks retail so we got 4 and our mark up was about 200% so that meant a gross margin of about $2.50 per unit. On release we sold about 400 units, so there is your grand. Then we actually made money out of the follow on sales.

Thats not too bad of a cost factor - if you get original figs into production again, it has to be less expensive since all that is already done?
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on April 25, 2011, 12:11:24 PM
The cost is just to get new production molds and hold an inventory. Back in the day molds were $50 each with multiple molds necessary for figs with more than two or three pieces. The average casting and packaging cost was about $1.25 to $1.50 per blister but RAFM was willing to do short runs of a dozen or so. The molds were replaced by RAFM as they used them, so that was basically a one time cost. So to get all the figs back into production, at those prices, would be about $6,000.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on April 26, 2011, 07:57:35 AM
Doing the UNE Paladin armor and the G1 nightmare in plastic would be very nice.  So many figures are based off those two chassis you could sell them in large numbers and then offer modification packs to upgrade them to all the variant types.  If you made the plastics at least semi-posable I would buy 100 right now. 

There are a  couple of miniature companies doing CAD based models and then waiting to make the moulds until they have x number of preorders.  Wargames Factory i think http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/alien-suns/shock-troops-sci-fi-greatcoat-troopers (http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/alien-suns/shock-troops-sci-fi-greatcoat-troopers) .  Might be able to talk with them and see what there business plan is like.

I do think making the base model a multi-part figure and then just adding different upgrade packs would be the way to go the more I think about it.  Would only require a small mould to be made for each new variant instead of a whole new model set.  Oh the possibilities for mods and custom conversions.  [wrings hands in devious glee]

Charles
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on April 26, 2011, 08:16:17 AM
...
I do think making the base model a multi-part figure and then just adding different upgrade packs would be the way to go the more I think about it.  Would only require a small mould to be made for each new variant instead of a whole new model set.  Oh the possibilities for mods and custom conversions.  [wrings hands in devious glee]

Charles

Reminds me of the games Ronin and Hybrid. Both not only had custom figures but used magnets to hold the limbs and extra on. Quick swap of items between games and if you cut an arm off, you took it off and left it on the table.

Stifkas is another great model concept. The concept was later turn into the playable figures of XEVOZ game.

I tried to get both companies of Stifkas and Ronin to join forces for a new game. Ah, sigh, it did not work.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on April 26, 2011, 08:40:02 AM
The magnet idea is a good one.  Works well for using one model but being able to arm them differently when needed without needing umpteen different models to represent each one.  I have done that with my Tau crisis suits as they have like 10+ options for 3 different hard points. 

Charles
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on April 26, 2011, 08:45:16 AM
I would love to have access to weapons sprues and "bitz" of the UNE stuff. Now that I have a second Superfortress I want to build my (Defiance game) custom version that mounts twin auto-RAMs on a swivel in place of one or both UberRAM mounts.

Magnets are good for gamers but fiddly for my tastes and don't sell models ;)
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Kindred on April 26, 2011, 10:59:53 AM
oooh, I liked Ronin. Only ever got one model, but loved the concept.

The problem with magnets on the small scale of these figures is that they have to exactly match the join points.
Magnetics are useful for vehicle sized figures that can be equipped differently per scenarios. Human-size models are just easier to make 10 standard plus 10 custom to build a 12 man squad, IMO.

I think plastics of the UNE Paladin and Nightmares is a cool thought, especially since plastics are so much easier to slice for custom modding. :)
However, the price point on plastics is MUCH higher. (i.e. individually cheaper in HUGE runs, but only if you make HUGE runs)
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on April 29, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
I think HUGE will have to wait.

My day job right now involves teaching Chinese business students.  If we were going to go to plastic, then three words: Made in China.  A few of these kids are super smart and highly motivated and have their own business contacts (through their parents).

But the time will come.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on May 01, 2011, 05:26:06 AM
The other three words for business in China are "Watch Your Back"  ;D
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on May 01, 2011, 09:47:57 AM
The other three words for business in China are "Watch Your Back"  ;D

I've done some of my homework but I would have to do more.  The key is your guan xie or relationships.  If you have someone you can trust then things go a lot smoother.  Plus the other thing that I have learned is that you can trust Chinese business women; the men, not so much.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: grendeljd on May 02, 2011, 09:32:08 AM
I would love to have access to weapons sprues and "bitz" of the UNE stuff.

I'll second that notion - before I got sick of GW, my favourite kit of all time was the original plastic space marine box - it had a ridiculous amount of bitz to customize figures with... and didn't it have enough to make something like 30 figures??

That would be insanely fun for LoS... and customized bitz for machines would help make personalized Omega Fiends that much cooler...
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on May 02, 2011, 12:53:32 PM
We'll certainly go down that path at one point, particularly for the Privateers.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on May 02, 2011, 01:36:10 PM
I would love to have access to weapons sprues and "bitz" of the UNE stuff.

I'll second that notion - before I got sick of GW, my favourite kit of all time was the original plastic space marine box - it had a ridiculous amount of bitz to customize figures with... and didn't it have enough to make something like 30 figures??

That would be insanely fun for LoS... and customized bitz for machines would help make personalized Omega Fiends that much cooler...

Yeah, the Mark 1 version of the suits and they were already Ultramarine blue. :)

I wish I had bought more than 3 of those sets.

Some companies will do a weapon/equipment set by it's self. Even if the extras are in plastic and the figure is metal, that is fine with me.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: SgtHulka on May 02, 2011, 05:44:22 PM
Wargames Factory hired a Chinese company to make their plastic figures.

Now that Chinese company owns Wargames Factory.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Dave Chase on May 02, 2011, 06:10:11 PM
Keep in mind that if the figures are really cool and you use an overseas company (like in Singapor, China, Tiwian, (asia) that there is a very good chance that those same figures will appear in other companies releases of toys.

Seen it and had it happen to WizKids, LLC.

And unless you have a very good working relationship with the parent company (who is making the figures) OR you have lots of money to throw away on legal fees internationally, you will not be able to stop it.

Dave Chase
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: smokingwreckage on May 03, 2011, 08:28:34 AM
Wargames Factory is a lesson, yes, but it is my understanding that the..... creative financial arrangements meant that the Chinese company had always, in the final analysis, owned Wargames Factory.

IP violations are rumoured to be why GW won't use cheaper OS factories, but that is because they see themselves as a global IP company. I will tastefully desist from comment on the broader implications of IP in the context of derivative fiction, of course, since I'm a gentleman.

Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: SgtHulka on May 11, 2011, 11:38:27 PM
The gold rush of IP in Hollywood, at least, is finally on the decline.
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: Clark on May 12, 2011, 08:17:10 AM
The gold rush of IP in Hollywood, at least, is finally on the decline.

How so?  Most big Hollywood releases are based on existing properties, many of which the studios have bought outright (especially superhero comic books).
Title: Re: Figures or not figures (cardboard hero style)
Post by: SgtHulka on May 12, 2011, 09:31:00 AM
The past couple of years they were buying almost anything. Comicon was as (probably even more) important than Sundance. That's still the case, but it's in the decline.

The basic premise was buy stuff that has already had marketing dollars spent on it. The trouble is that it led to a feeding frenzy where a lot was purchased that wasn't necessarily popular. So I think they're a bit more wary right now. The word fanboy used to be a positive. Now it's definitely seen as a negative.

As for comic books, Marvel and DC are practically studios themselves now. They've proven their value. They aren't considered fanboy, they're considered four quadrant. So I'm not really talking about them. I'm talking more about a self-published comic some guy printed that no one outside of comicon ever heard of.

Everything's still based on something else when you go the cinema. That's not gonna change. I'm just talking about the buying frenzy of stuff that never would have made it to screen, anyway.