News: Clark has announced that he has started to post old LoS content (in the Media Gallery section), and will be posting more plus new content!

Recent Posts

91
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 26, 2019, 06:18:34 PM »
Hey everyone, I am very proud to announce that my son, Nico and I have started Raybox Games together. It will be Re-launching Legions of Steel as well as Inferno and several other games. Check out our website at www.rayboxgames.com.
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General Discussion / Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 26, 2019, 06:15:12 PM »
Sorry it took me so long, real life got in the way.
You might want to check in with Reaper as well since they've been working with plastic/resin.

You may also want to hold on until GAMA, I know it's a ways off but it would give you time to get everything worked out, minis designed or reworked, GAMA I know always has a ton of manufacturers there and usually a few from overseas so it's a good place to get some extra info and pricing on getting models made.

I think a basic into set and a base box set are both good ideas, maybe KS those and offer more for retailers? One thing I've noticed is a trend away from blisters, this is good at the retail end as there is less for them to put on the shelves. Maybe go with small box sets depending on how you go with manufacturing. A basic UNE squad or section box, a basic legion unit box, a UNE command box (with a mix of officer and specialists), a special weapons section (gives a section of heavy and special weapons that can be split up or attached etc.), heavy trooper box (heavy armour section) etc. then you also have the option to do something similar intoducing more races to the fight. It keeps your shelf footprint small and let's people pick models up in pre made sections with unit cards and unit options etc.

Personally I always loved the tiles, I liked the idea of introducing small rules books...new races, scenarios, unit types etc. with a few new tile sets...makes the books especially desirable for the new tiles etc. plus you also have an option to release a tile set separately depending on costs.

Btw, don't know if any one is at Gencon this year but a few years ago I found two or three overseas manufacturers had booths there...might be something to check on, just remember that while it's usually a lot cheaper it also has a lot of potential issues.

hey, sorry for the late response but thanks so much for all the info. If I KS, what are the things I should do to remain retailer friendly. I want it to make sens for retailers to carry and support the game.
93
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 26, 2019, 06:08:50 PM »
Well I think the market is showing several trends right now. I think there are two distinct areas of competition. Funding and Audience.

Funding
KS has been funding a LOT of Board Games in the past few years. Companies have gotten wise to the board game market and are really using the platform as a massive pre-sales engine rather than its original  intent(new startups and providing "regular" people a source of funding). One one hand the board  game itself is the vehicle, but the MINIATURES and add-ons are designed to draw in the war gamer who wants the minis and associated terrain for other purposes. They get a much broader audience in this manner.  Personally I have supported many kickstarters for the miniatures alone and will NEVER play the game itself.


sorry for not responding earlier but thanks so much for all the info. It is greatly appreciated.
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Other Miniatures Games / Re: INFERNO!
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 26, 2019, 06:06:40 PM »
I also designed a WWII miniatures combat game called Stalingrad which I also plan on re-releasing one day. THose rules will be ready for playtest in a month or two.

I want them ASAP!!!

I have your original draft set, in addition to a test sculpt/miniature for the game.  I hope to get hold of this soon (send directly if they aren't ready for posting yet)!

-Kevin

hey Kevin,

email me and I will get them to you. rayboxgames@gmail.com
95
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by Karpov on July 11, 2019, 02:26:07 PM »
I think they look pretty good. The letters seem to blend into each other, maybe a less beefy font. What about hero points or kneeling?

OK...

FIXED the font
ADDED Leadership/Kneeling
REMOVED a couple doors (REVISED scenarios to suit)
COMPILED Marco's rules, my counters/scenarios, Charles' unit tokens into one file

...end result:

LoS Demo Pack (it resides under the Scenarios section of Media)

Enjoy!
96
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by Scoutzout on July 04, 2019, 01:16:40 AM »
Well I think the market is showing several trends right now. I think there are two distinct areas of competition. Funding and Audience.

Funding
KS has been funding a LOT of Board Games in the past few years. Companies have gotten wise to the board game market and are really using the platform as a massive pre-sales engine rather than its original  intent(new startups and providing "regular" people a source of funding). One one hand the board  game itself is the vehicle, but the MINIATURES and add-ons are designed to draw in the war gamer who wants the minis and associated terrain for other purposes. They get a much broader audience in this manner.  Personally I have supported many kickstarters for the miniatures alone and will NEVER play the game itself.

Basically, you will be competing for the dollars (and attention) with other companies, well developed, well funded, well organized kickstarters. Look at CMON (Zombicide, Hate, The Others).  If a company like CMON or Mantic is funding a slick board game with 100 miniatures, its going to be difficult not to be compared from a value perspective.
Take a look at the Hate Kickstarter
10,227 backers pledged $1,469,489 to help bring this project to life.

This is a board game with a massive number of miniatures and stretch goals included in its base price (120 Bucks). They expand sales by adding 25 Dollar bundles etc.

Audience
THe market is absolutely saturated with skirmish and hybrid wargames/boardgames like LOS. GW has 2-3 DIFFERENT games with different systems(Necromunda, Kill Team, Combat Arena, Underworlds) targeted at customers as entry level, lower cost (than a full 40K army). Some have alredy mentioned Star Saga and Warpath


A big company that in my opinion that is in direct competition is Corvus Belli's Infinity. They are at every convention, have a growing following, are retooling and remaking their old minis with new upgraded models. They are moving from walls of blisters to slick, colorful boxed sets with 2 factions and terrain. Their miniatures are quite frankly some of the most impressive the industry has to offer.
They have detailed fluff, well developed factions, standardized free rules online, free army builder software.

I would take a close look at what they are offering - especially with the 2 Factions sets. I believe that's the kind of focus we need for an LOS resurrection.

Main Site
https://store.corvusbelli.com/wargames/infinity

2 Faction Sets (these are amazing in quality)
https://store.corvusbelli.com/wargames/infinity/initiation-sets?filter.type=battle

 





97
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by Upper Canada Games on July 03, 2019, 09:02:03 PM »
Besides the obvious GW, I think one of the other companies in the genre is Mantic with Warpath. They recently did a major overhaul in the last few years changing to an all box set format and dumping blisters for most of the lines. The newer game star saga is a similar idea with elite teams of mercs gong into facilities. Might be worth looking at if for no other reason than the contents of their box set.
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General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 03, 2019, 03:07:03 PM »
What are your thoughts on who what would be a competing line of figures and games system for LOS?
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General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 03, 2019, 03:06:12 PM »
Replying inline in red
Hi guys,

Thanks so much for the insight and comments. I really appreciate it.

Overall, I pretty much agree with everything being said.

Legacy: I am not that familiar with Legacy PLayers, any input on this would be helpful.
Legacy refers to us old school players, not to any system or style of play

Rules: I definitely want to make them all free and downloadable starting with clean PDFs and eventually have the printed version available. We could KS a book with all of the rules but I don't think I'd want it the basic boxed set. The new release should focus on the basics which work so well and tried, tested and true. I would even consider including a stripped down quick start rules. What are your thoughts on that?
Quick is good, backed up by tried and true. All kickstarters include the rules (or version), a playtest video and good, clear images of the product

Fluff and miniatures: Absolutely. We have to advance the timeline and create an evocative stimulating story. My current thoughts in a nutshell are as follows. We advance the timeline 100 years. The LOA have actually pushed the machines back and to the periphery. Skirmishes continue there but since it is the frontier, the inner planets have kind of placed the conflict out of mind. The brave soldiers on the outline planets however are in a continuous fight for survival. Armour is being worn out, weapons are malfunctioning and one key to survival is the jury rigging of existing equipment. The atmosphere of the game is darker with an overarching wild west (but not wild west) kind of feel to it. The first boxed set with new updated sculpts would be in the old armours but more war torn, less "spiffy." As new and improved equipment is made available via supply shipments (read as - when we release a new miniature its because logistics has just delivered a new batch of equipment to the war torn combatants), armies can be updated or enhanced. The vets on the line however would likely continue to be grisseled and tenacious (maybe not even trusting the new equipment  :-\)

Art: All of the art must be new and updated, maybe including some throwback art in the glossary or online.

Scale: I am not sure exactly what is meant here. What is your exact recommendation?
Size of the miniatures. If we are going to do new sculpts, they need to be heroic scale in my opinion (32mm to the eye). I like the idea of grizzled teams of vets on long range missions and striking out with little support.



KS: THese are my thoughts and not carved in stone at all. Any input would be appreciated. To help raise money I thought we could re-release some of the Classic sculpts to the public along with the free rules and downloadable maps and counters. I would want to keep the first box set smaller with say 4 commandos and 5 or 6 machines, all new sculpts, boards, doors, counters, unit sheets or even cards for figures with quick references on them. A beautiful boxed set that we can keep at a very affordable price. I would even consider a small paint set and brush for newbies to paint their first set of figures. We will need all the nelp we can get to generate interest and insure a successful run. I will be starting a Reddit thread at one point.
Yes, small and tight is key here. No extreme  stretch goals, no overly complex KS. Commandos vs Nightmares. Perhaps Mk1 and Behemoth. Unit Cards, Doors Boards Dice

Conventions: I believe this can start as soon as possible. I am talking to my friends at Fan Expo about running games there in August as well as any other local cons through the rest of the year. I am returning to Canada mid july and would like to meet with any interested parties as well as playtest the new scenarios. Anything I can do to encourage and help you guys to start playing the game at conventions would be appreciated. I will have the basic figures available by august so new players can order directly. Not sure on the boards as that is quite an investment to get started but at least have them available online as well as a fold out map and counters. PLease let me know how I can directly help you all.
In the Chicago area with some decent conventions and people I could recruit. I am willing to help for sure.

THanks and be sure to let me know who would like to meet later july and in August.

all the best

Marco, current creator and overlord.

Thanks very much Scoutzout. We are definitely on the same page. I would love if you could do demos in Chicago. What do you feel you need from me? How can I help?
100
General Discussion / Re: Observation on new re-release
« Last post by EarthdogMP on July 03, 2019, 03:02:21 PM »
For a small starter box you absolutely need a rulebook I think. Even if it's a cut down simple rules set that just goes with the minis in the box you want the rules there on hand instead of players having to go print them.

I think a start would be just to focus on a core set, getting enough to get it out will also provide you with models to do reinforcements sets. The idea of updated models is also a good one. I would consider keeping it simple but also see if it's worth it price wise to offer retailers the specialist models...engineers, heavy weapons etc. that gives them a reason to want to carry it.

If you're planning to go to fan expo I might be able to make it there myself, my friend is usually in charge of the masquerade so I sometimes come down for it.

I couldn't agree more. I am waiting to hear back from them to see what table space I can get.