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Author Topic: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?  (Read 1981 times)

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Offline Dave Chase

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Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« on: February 14, 2011, 04:12:31 PM »
Sgt Hulka’s post about the different Planetstorm army strengths and weakness, got me thinking that might make an interesting discussion thread.

I put it here in General since its more about the various army figures and not necessarily rules orientated.

First, What are the strengths of the (fill in the name) army in Planetstorm?

Second, what are the weaknesses of the (fill in the name) army in Planetstorm?

Finally (for this thread), Do you think that the (fill in the name) army needs different figures or vehicles to attempt to fix the weakness? Or do you think it just makes that army more interesting to play?

Dave Chase
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Offline SgtHulka

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 10:13:58 PM »
Wow, how long has it been since I've played a proper Planetstorm game on a 4'x6' table or bigger? At least fifteen years? Maybe more?

So with that disclaimer, here's what I sort of remember about Fantasia, all of which could be wrong. They have two huge weaknesses: their armor and their high rate of fire. High rate of fire weapons, like AK's and Flechette guns, are actually worse in Planetstorm than they are underground. That's because Planetstorm has a "pinning" rule, where if you roll the exact number required you "pin" your target instead of killing it. Statistically, high rate of fire weapons make up for a high kill number with extra dice. But the "pin" rule really penalizes them. A RAM Laser being able to kill on a 5+ at medium range is fine. It can kill or pin. But a AK with a kill on a 6+, even with two dice, means the best you can do is pin. Meanwhile, at those ranges the Fantasians are vulnerable because their armor is so bad. While they can only pin someone at medium range, incoming fire can effectively kill them on a 4 or 5 and pin on a 6.

What I remember is that the Fantasian Katyusha batteries help make up for those deficiencies. They can just sit back behind cover and rain death (or the equivelant, EMP death), forcing your opponent to come to you into short range. In instances where you have objectives, so you can't just sit and wait, the Fantasian's superior speed keeps them competitive.

But really, to be competitive with the Fantasians, you need a Katyusha battery (3 T-34's armed with the rocket launchers).

I also seem to remember their MASLAW shoulder mounts were really good, better than the TOW. I don't remember the stats, but I think what made them better was you could choose whether to use them in an anti-armor or anti-personel role.

Didn't they also have a sniper who was really cool? Hm, I'm gonna have to dig out planetstorm and refresh my memory.

Offline smokingwreckage

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 09:29:32 PM »
Well, the Infranite's main strength was that the BAP was way too cheap!

Mostly I've only played tabletop using Defiance from mj12games.com. In that, getting pinned can be worse than dying, and suffering another morale failure while pinned kills you via the "crap yourself to death" rule. So, Fantasians would have no problem there, but I can't remember anything about getting double-pinned in Planetstorm.

Offline bobloblah

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 02:06:45 PM »
Didn't doing nothing to alleviate the Pinned status leave you Exposed, and therefore more vulnerable to fire? I don't have my book handy, and I've only tried Planetstorm a few times, so I could be mis-remembering...
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Offline Clark

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 02:17:32 PM »
To become unpinned you have to blow your next move and fire action. If you try to move or fire while pinned you become exposed: the enemy gets -1 on their kill number and you get killed rather than pinned.

Offline bobloblah

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 02:25:00 PM »
Yeah, I liked that mechanic a lot, and the maneuvering that resulted from it, too.  The Pinned and available Kill numbers for some troops made it tedious at times, though.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Clark

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 04:21:36 PM »
The battle drills I was taught by the RCR included "winning the firefight" which basically meant hosing down the enemy until they are all pinned. Then you pepper pot by assault groups with one running and one stationary firing to keep them pinned or kill them if they try to move or return fire.

Weapons that are high ROF + high kill # tend to pin a lot, especially if you are soaking up penalties from terrain, movement or the target's armour. In calculating UPVs, pinning was worth 1/3rd of a kill.

Offline sergeant_hastp

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 08:53:54 PM »
hear, hear.

For me, the key would be to make 'pinning' more advantageous to the defender.  After all, taking cover against withering fire is something that seems like a really good idea to the troops involved, even though it might not be tactically sound.

You can make it seem more advantageous by making the alternative so much less nice.  'Exposed' is just not tough enough of a penalty to lift your head up. 

I would suggest a figure that exposes himself should make a roll, along the lines of 1-2: ok for now.  3-4: Take a wound (along the lines of the Advanced Rules. wound chart.)  5-6: figure takes a hit.

Figures who are pinned would be 1 point easier to kill at short range.

This is the incentive for the attacking figures to approach and assault the pinned down figures.

Offline Clark

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2011, 12:32:22 AM »
I figured that the fact that you can't get pinned again was enough that a pinned figure shouldn't get any further defensive bonuses. As far as the penalty for exposing yourself, between the bonus on enemy rolls and that you die rather than get pinned again, an exposed figure is roughly 4 times as likely to die as usual.

I've been working on some variations on pinning, particularly so that wounding and pinning will work together rather than being mutually exclusive rules. I worked in a factor such that being within 3" to 5" negates the chance to pin. It also balanced the high-kill#/high-ROF weapons while  modifying other weapons and allowing for terrain or fortifications. Plus, supression fire pins more.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 08:11:28 PM by Clark »

Offline sergeant_hastp

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 04:07:58 PM »
I'm not sure I made my original post very clear.

When I said that it should be more advantageous to the defender, what i really meant to say was that the defender should not get any more defensive bonuses.  It should just seem like a really good idea compared to the alternative.

And that alternative should be harsher, to reinforce the perception that getting pinned is not a bad thing from that figure's point of view.

I developed a modern warfare miniatures game with a colleague of mine years ago (Clark, I think you and I discussed it via e-mail at one time).

We handled the react to effective enemy fire/ win the firefight situation like this:

(Note that the game was scaled so that each section moved and fought as a unit, not as individuals).

When a section took fire, we determined how many figures got hit.  Then before applying those kills, the defender had the option to take cover.  If he chose to take cover, and voluntarily 'pin' that uit down, then the number of kills actually applied was halved, to a minimum of 1 kill.

This represented the section being able to assess how  'effective' the incoming fire actually was.  The theory being that a seasoned section in a heavy combat situation isn't concerned with the occasional round passing by, but when section members start to go down, it's 'Effective Enemy Fire.'
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 04:09:53 PM by sergeant_hastp »

Offline Scoutzout

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 08:13:03 PM »
Pinning..ahh the cause of so many discussions. I haven't played Planetstorm in a while and dont have the rulebook handy so correct me if  I am wrong:

In general

In Planetstorm you become pinned when after all the calculating is done and your opponent rolled exactly what they need to hit. Only Armor, cover etc saved your butt from a "penetrating" kill.

In Planetstorm a pin is a non lethal hit. You have been tagged and it forces you to expend fire/move action to unpin or suffer a penalty for ignoring it.

Observations

In Planetstorm you can be pinned in the open from a clean unobstructed shot.

In LOS you cannot be pinned -all the weapons become more lethal than they were outside at the same distance.

The pinned model stays pinned until it can expend a fire/move action to remove the token. This could be quite some time as other units are activated etc. This results in the "multi-pinning" that we saw a lot.

Multiple Pins dont officially mean a kill but some people have adopted that as a rule

2 Kill creatures and Pinning? Should a Behemoth be pinned by a lucky shot from a gremlin? If a successful hit on a two kill model imposes no penalty(other than the kill) why does a Pin impose a penalty?(I have to check the rules on 2Kill creatures as those are the foggiest)

If you dont expend a fire action/move to become unpinned
The -1 penalty applies to everyone shooting at you even another model (a Sniperbot) 60 inches away
The - 1 penalty applies whether the attacker is 20 inches away or 3 inches away - so a point blank shot from a blaster can pin again
The -1 Penalty applies even if doing something like using grenades or indirect fire
A machine model can be pinned? Something that has no concern for its own life (assuming that pinning is triggered by the "oh ****" factor)


Can we post the rules in a thread as we discuss them?

 









Offline Dave Chase

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 09:06:24 PM »
...
Can we post the rules in a thread as we discuss them?

:lol:

Same question I asked earlier, and the answer is

Yes, but Clark reserves the right to delete any posting of printed rules that he wishes (or close to what the actual statement was.)

Basically, I have only posted the section directly related to the rule needed for the discussion.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline Clark

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Re: Planetstorm Army Strengths and Weakness?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2011, 09:53:59 PM »
Check the "RULES" in your upper left corner

http://los.turtleshellprod.co m/index.php?action=rules

a) Members may cite Legions of Steel materials for the purposes of discussion.