Author Topic: A detailed example: kickstarter  (Read 14930 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 05:49:53 PM »
Well, I can do more than I posted but it is up to Clark to get the ball going and decide whom he wants to help ramrod it.

Some of my background experience the game hobby world besides being a gamer at heart (primarily miniatures but RPG also along with board games)

Worked for WizKids, LLC (not WizKids, INC) wearing many hats which I freely allowed to be given to others as we hired more.

Fleer/SkyBox International, as Gaming Initiative and Entertainment Licensing.
Mainly Card games and entertainment trading cards.

Also some freelancing for some smaller companies to help promote some of their product and teach/train them on how to develop and use volunteer programs to promote their games/products.

If Clark wants, I would be willing to be coordinator if he points us in the direction he wants with a game plan.

But it will also take some committment from others, one just can't do it all by yourself and have it out in a timely manner.


Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline bobloblah

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2013, 01:17:53 AM »
Well, I can do more than I posted but it is up to Clark to get the ball going and decide whom he wants to help ramrod it.
Agreed. He hasn't been on in about 6 months or so - hopefully he drops by again soon.

Some of my background experience the game hobby world besides being a gamer at heart (primarily miniatures but RPG also along with board games)

Worked for WizKids, LLC (not WizKids, INC) wearing many hats which I freely allowed to be given to others as we hired more.

Fleer/SkyBox International, as Gaming Initiative and Entertainment Licensing.
Mainly Card games and entertainment trading cards.

Also some freelancing for some smaller companies to help promote some of their product and teach/train them on how to develop and use volunteer programs to promote their games/products.
Whoah! That's actually a pretty impressive gaming industry resume. Personally, I've got a number of years experience in the toolmaking (primarily mouldmaking) industry. I'll lay out some of my other experience if the time comes when it appears relevant.

But it will also take some committment from others, one just can't do it all by yourself and have it out in a timely manner.
Well, hopefully some of what I explained in my first post in this thread, plus some of the time I've been spending doing stuff on this site makes it clear I'm fairly commited. I seem to recall a few other offers of peoples' talents in various threads around here. I have little doubt that Clark could avail himself of enough talent to at least get him rolling to a point where, should things go well, he would be able to acquire professional help.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2013, 08:10:01 AM »
So, do you know much about 3D printers and the programs that they use?

I ask because of the following

It would be a way to get some of the potential models printed (3D) and shown on the kickstarter program

They could be part of the higher end give away of kickstarter donations (like giving people the greens of figures

And a long stretch of an idea, a few could be given as free (like .pdf) and a few others could be purchased (like .pdf) that people could print out as needed.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline Scoutzout

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2013, 12:55:41 AM »
Any word from Clark at all? Is he still in Asia? I love the game but the wait has been so long.

I have been working hard on my own game in the interim but I would be interested in helping in any way I can. (I would even entertain funding some models and art)

It sounds like Dave has lots of experience. I have only the experience I have gained in the last couple of years working on my own project. Taking something from concept art, to illustrations to 3D design and learning the process on the fly has been VERY challenging but also very rewarding.

Zbrush is the big 3D design platform. There are several forums on the topic, but you have to sift through all the 1/6 scale and 54mm stuff. The number of 30mm miniatures artists is starting to grow but I worked with several guys before I could find one that had the technical and artistic talent to meet my requirements. Most of the talented/experienced guys are already working for the Privateer Presses/GW's of the world...others are out there but their pricing is pretty high and workloads too heavy to take something like this on.

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but its not enough to be able to generate the 3D image. You have to understand how the miniature is going to be printed, how its going to be broken apart, assembled etc. Usually the talent to create the miniature is different than the one to produce the masters and there needs to be a solid collaboration effort (and willingness to do so)
There are several companies that do 3D printing but not all 3D printers, materials and details are equal. Print resolution, master material, the detail of the actual miniature all are critical elements.

Then you have to get into the miniatures production side. Metal, Resin, Plastic? Spin Cast, Plastic Sprue..the list goes on and on.

and packaging, logo art, ...shipping

The effort to rework LOS and bring into the 2000's would be pretty huge and this screams for some pre-production and a kickstarter.

I have watched every one of the previously mentioned Kickstarters.  Sedition Wars (Backer) Monster, Dreamforge, Reaper and now Warzone. It will be interesting to see how they shake out. Sure they made a big entry splash but games live and die on new releases, advanced rules, new miniatures, new factions etc. However to REALLY be successful. People have to want to play your game...lots of them. Warhammer, Flames of War, GW- huge fanbase, lots of open wallets and desire for MORE. That requires gameplay and rulesets that need to be solid as well.

Just throwing some thoughts out there..love seeing some activity on this forum.









Offline bobloblah

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2013, 01:22:58 PM »
Any word from Clark at all? Is he still in Asia? I love the game but the wait has been so long.
Nothing from Clark. As I mentioned earlier, there will need to be a remedy to this if he ever wants to keep things moving. That doesn't mean he needs to be on here all the time, but there needs to be someone who's the "face" of the community. If others from here become involved in work on re-starting the game, they'll obviously need a way to contact him as well.

It sounds like Dave has lots of experience. I have only the experience I have gained in the last couple of years working on my own project. Taking something from concept art, to illustrations to 3D design and learning the process on the fly has been VERY challenging but also very rewarding.
That's very useful experience! It's much more up to date than Clark's days at Global Games (no offence intended).

The number of 30mm miniatures artists is starting to grow but I worked with several guys before I could find one that had the technical and artistic talent to meet my requirements. Most of the talented/experienced guys are already working for the Privateer Presses/GW's of the world...others are out there but their pricing is pretty high and workloads too heavy to take something like this on.
I've been wondering about this. What kind of rates are we talking about for sculpting (CAD or physical) a 28mm man-sized figure?

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but its not enough to be able to generate the 3D image. You have to understand how the miniature is going to be printed, how its going to be broken apart, assembled etc. Usually the talent to create the miniature is different than the one to produce the masters and there needs to be a solid collaboration effort (and willingness to do so)
This is getting into my realm of experience, and I'm fairly certain I can help.
There are several companies that do 3D printing but not all 3D printers, materials and details are equal. Print resolution, master material, the detail of the actual miniature all are critical elements.
I have experience with, and several contacts in, this industry. When the time comes I can start making some inquiries about what's possible and costs for prototypes.

Then you have to get into the miniatures production side. Metal, Resin, Plastic? Spin Cast, Plastic Sprue..the list goes on and on...and packaging, logo art, ...shipping
These are decisions that become important when you're considering a real re-launch and costing out a Kickstarter. First things first, is that even a road Clark wants to go down?

The effort to rework LOS and bring into the 2000's would be pretty huge and this screams for some pre-production and a kickstarter.
Absolutely!

Just throwing some thoughts out there..love seeing some activity on this forum.
Yeah, same here. Let's hope we can get something rolling from this.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Scoutzout

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2013, 05:36:34 PM »
Regarding the Cost for a GOOD cad person.

1500-2500 for a Miniature.

What that includes
Good Concept Art

CAD
  • T-Pose which is the textured, detailed mini. Arms/Legs/Head - no weapons or equipment unless that is integrated into the body.
    Reposes - if you want to have 2-3 dynamic poses. Running, Kneeling, Standing- Its fairly simple once the T pose is created, but takes some time to do properly.
    Modular components
    For example,  my minis started with 2 Poses, 3 Head Variants, 4 Weapon Variants

Extras - Accessories Like Grenades/Mines etc

For example
UNE Commando
4 Poses
2-3 Heads

Weapons
    • Carbine
      Plasma
      AutoRam
      xyz
Grenades (if they aren't sculpted onto the T-Pose)


and then production masters and move to production of miniatures

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2013, 09:56:37 PM »
Regarding the Cost for a GOOD cad person.

1500-2500 for a Miniature.

...

U.S. Dollars I assume?

And at that rate, I could have 10 years ago hired a good scupltor for less ofr a project run.

I don't know what a good and available sculptor would charge today.


But what I would like is bodies with arms with weapons and with out along with some extra weapons and accessories for each figure. Kind of what Games Workshop did in the beginning with Space Marine plastic miniatures.

Loved creating my own miniatures that way.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline Scoutzout

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2013, 10:12:54 PM »
Yeah..sorry US Dollars

I also had some traditional sculpting quoted. Ranged from 650-1600 depending on the sculptor. Most of these guys are booked solid for at least 12 months.


Totally agree..I want as modular as possible. For things like UNE and Machine -very doable with CAD

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2013, 12:24:37 AM »
Well I know (personally) some very good sculptors that might have some time this year if we need to find some.

One is deep into Warzone minis and another is working on Mongoose figures.

I am not sure about the other 3, but I am sure that they are working some where.
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline bobloblah

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2013, 10:08:00 AM »
Well I know (personally) some very good sculptors that might have some time this year if we need to find some.

One is deep into Warzone minis and another is working on Mongoose figures.

I am not sure about the other 3, but I am sure that they are working some where.
Any idea what kind of money they charge?
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2013, 11:17:26 AM »
I haven't asked in over a decade.

But if serious, I can find out.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.

Offline bobloblah

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2013, 11:32:00 AM »
Depends on what you mean by serious!
 ;)
It's not like I'm going to contract somebody tomorrow, but I'd like to know current rates, as I am seriously considering possibilities.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline smokingwreckage

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2013, 03:23:30 AM »
Um, how serious was the Global Games / Reaper vendetta? Because the Reaper forums are amongst the best places on the internet to ask around generally for various talents, skills, and so on. You could almost certainly pick up 3D sculptors, trad sculptors, and absolutely find some top notch painters.

Offline bobloblah

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Mk III Assault Fiend
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 08:49:58 AM »
Um, how serious was the Global Games / Reaper vendetta?
:o
Don't really know anything about it. Can you elaborate?
Because the Reaper forums are amongst the best places on the internet to ask around generally for various talents, skills, and so on. You could almost certainly pick up 3D sculptors, trad sculptors, and absolutely find some top notch painters.
Okay, that's someplace we can potentially try then.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Dave Chase

  • Succubot
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: A detailed example: kickstarter
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2013, 11:29:38 AM »
I haven't gotten a reply yet from anyone. But I just sent out messages on Friday.

Will try a few more this coming week.

Dave Chase
Freedom is the right to speak your mind.

It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.