Author Topic: RE-Release of Miniatures  (Read 6796 times)

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Offline EarthdogMP

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RE-Release of Miniatures
« on: April 04, 2019, 01:52:00 PM »
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. In the meantime I would like to gauge an idea on which figures people would like me to produce from the original set. I will have a downloadable form listing all the figures. If you could fill it out as to the ones you would like I can then see what can be produced. I haver masters of all the figures so there is no problem to make casts again, but if anyone knows where our original molds are, that would be some great information. I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota

Offline Karpov

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 03:04:59 PM »
Without a shadow of a doubt, the basic Nightmare.  That has always been the hardest to come by, and even with all the minis I have, I lack them most of all.  Finding them in blister form was always difficult (impossible?), so relying on boxed set only was pricey.

Sure there are others that are rare (Superfortress, etc), but Nightmares are the basic trooper and from my experience were the hardest to track down...back in the day.

Offline bobloblah

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 05:31:07 PM »
I'd say that the Black Box minis are the obvious place to start (UNE Commando, UNE Heavy Weapon Commando, G1 Nightmare, and MK I Assault Fiend). It's the minimum starting point people would need to begin playing. I wouldn't go with the Blue Box mix, as the scenarios are really not as well suited to that mix of minis...

As for others? Well... I mentioned in another thread that I am willing to consider crimes short of genocide (as that leaves no one to play against) to obtain more Infranite Lightning jet bikes, but realistically I think you need to decide based on what your rules support versus cost of introduction versus volume versus margin. Or, at least, that's what I would do if I was in the business of making miniatures.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline Warchariot

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 06:59:47 PM »
Yes, the basics first, But I would like to see the "latest" figures from just before production was shut down, these are hard to find. Also, to get older players back, some new designs/redesigns. I would love to see these in resin/plastic.
Larry
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Offline Karpov

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 08:39:07 AM »
I guess the big question is this:  Are you asking what figures should be made for old players sake or for future players sake?

If the former, than sure, I have a list of older releases that I could use as we all do.

If the latter, than you (Marco) need to decide what you want new players to experience.  If you have a plan for next year's re-release than it's mute, but I think keeping it simple and in the spirit of the original 'black' box is best.

I really don't like (boxed) games that try and do to much with it's release.  And subsequently, I see a lot of them fail.  By going back to it's roots, the gameplay of LoS would be the selling point having just Commandos and Nightmares to focus on.  I felt the 'blue' box was very limiting even with many different unit types (and yes, I read all the reasons why it was done, just saying...).  You have a GREAT base to work with...super rules, super minis, and enough variety with other units that releases can be rolled out in time to keep interest up.

Offline bobloblah

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 09:58:15 AM »
Agreed.
Best Regards,
Bobloblah

Offline EarthdogMP

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2019, 11:27:39 AM »
I guess the big question is this:  Are you asking what figures should be made for old players sake or for future players sake?

If the former, than sure, I have a list of older releases that I could use as we all do.

If the latter, than you (Marco) need to decide what you want new players to experience.  If you have a plan for next year's re-release than it's mute, but I think keeping it simple and in the spirit of the original 'black' box is best.

I really don't like (boxed) games that try and do to much with it's release.  And subsequently, I see a lot of them fail.  By going back to it's roots, the gameplay of LoS would be the selling point having just Commandos and Nightmares to focus on.  I felt the 'blue' box was very limiting even with many different unit types (and yes, I read all the reasons why it was done, just saying...).  You have a GREAT base to work with...super rules, super minis, and enough variety with other units that releases can be rolled out in time to keep interest up.

Thanks fo the input. What I want, over the next year or so, is to produce figures that the current fans want, work at creating new players and produce for their desires and needs and then with the new release making new figures. I do want to keep it simple and will be looking for more good suggestions and input from all of you. THe plan is to keep the existing figures still relevant even after the new release. I have a very interesting idea on how to do this. More to follow.

cheers Marco
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Offline Karpov

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 11:32:14 AM »
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. <snip> I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota
OK, guess I'll start now as my mind is still reeling at the prospect of officially supporting this game once again.

1)  Will the boxed set be like before (same metal figs, same board pieces)?

You probably don't have a full idea yet, but here is my wish list.  First, the old boxed set was near perfect, very 40Kish (and we know how they sell) in components and still very viable considering current releases.  Enough to play all the scenarios and enough to wet your appetite for additional units.  What I would like to see is a freshening up of some of the components though.  Arguments for plastic minis are valid (possible with Kickstarter) while leaving the current metals for future purchases, and possible new style boards.  Unit cards are a must in my eyes.  Every game has them, makes is super easy for players to access during games, and a must have for running games.  Snazzy cards (and QRS!) brings it into 2018 and beyond.

2)  Will Planetstorm be a thing?

I hope not, at least not from the get go and certainly not in it's current form.  Large scale tabletop army/skirmish games are getting rarer, and more often they are getting smaller.  I'd like to see a re-focus of Planetstorm to be smaller in scale (not by much mind you), but a little more focused and easy to play.  Personally I thought the rules tried to do to much.

3)  Boxed set only? 

I wouldn't mind seeing scenario/mini sets.  Call them expansions, whatever.  Something where you buy an xpac and it has all the minis (and new cards!!!) with new scenarios/stories to go with it.  Feel like your adding to the game, not just tacking on blister packs.  Having all those blisters and map packs back in the day was mana from heaven, but it didn't feel cohesive.  The additional rule books were great, but everything felt like you had to pick and choose instead of being led down a path.  Dunno, hard to put into words.  Guess I just like seeing fleshed out xpacs instead of new book + blisters.

4)  Speaking of supplements...new rulebook to combine them all or re-releasing the same books?

Having a master rulebook at this stage is paramount.  Makes no sense just re-releasing all the old books.  Combine, tighten, remaster=perfection.  Combined with above you can then create xpacs dealing with various operations touched on in the old books fluff.  Ex. "Battle for Cake", includes new spaceship boards, new minis (Nightmare XYZ, and why, because they were tasked in defending ships...Commondo ABC, why, to assault inbound legion ships), new unit cards, and new scenarios to re-fight the assault.

5)  No change to minis?

The old minis are tired in some cases, probably the Commandos the most.  Re-releasing via Kickstarter could allow for plastic sprues of the original Commandos and Nightmares (not unlike a sprue of SMs and Necrons).  Would really freshen up the look and tie nicely into the excellent PI sculpts.  Not gonna lie, I won't even consider buying new look UNE/Fantasian/Legion et al minis.  I love the old ones, period.  You take the old mini and alternate sculpt it, I'm in!

6)  New vehicles?

Not important to me, but if Planetstorm is re-visited, will the unmade vehicles be imagined?

Sorry for hitting you with all these questions, Marco, but consider my interest peeked to the max.

-Kevin

Excuse my rambling as well...doing this at work in between 'interruptions'.

Offline Karpov

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 11:35:14 AM »
Bah, you responded as I was typing/posting my long narrative.  Ignore what you may have answered already.

Offline EarthdogMP

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 12:23:29 PM »
Hi everyone,

So I am back and looking at a new release of the boxed set next year sometime. I am sure you have many questions which I would be happy to field. <snip> I look forward to hearing back from you all.

sincerely

Marco Pecota
OK, guess I'll start now as my mind is still reeling at the prospect of officially supporting this game once again.

1)  Will the boxed set be like before (same metal figs, same board pieces)?

You probably don't have a full idea yet, but here is my wish list.  First, the old boxed set was near perfect, very 40Kish (and we know how they sell) in components and still very viable considering current releases.  Enough to play all the scenarios and enough to wet your appetite for additional units.  What I would like to see is a freshening up of some of the components though.  Arguments for plastic minis are valid (possible with Kickstarter) while leaving the current metals for future purchases, and possible new style boards.  Unit cards are a must in my eyes.  Every game has them, makes is super easy for players to access during games, and a must have for running games.  Snazzy cards (and QRS!) brings it into 2018 and beyond.

2)  Will Planetstorm be a thing?

I hope not, at least not from the get go and certainly not in it's current form.  Large scale tabletop army/skirmish games are getting rarer, and more often they are getting smaller.  I'd like to see a re-focus of Planetstorm to be smaller in scale (not by much mind you), but a little more focused and easy to play.  Personally I thought the rules tried to do to much.

3)  Boxed set only? 

I wouldn't mind seeing scenario/mini sets.  Call them expansions, whatever.  Something where you buy an xpac and it has all the minis (and new cards!!!) with new scenarios/stories to go with it.  Feel like your adding to the game, not just tacking on blister packs.  Having all those blisters and map packs back in the day was mana from heaven, but it didn't feel cohesive.  The additional rule books were great, but everything felt like you had to pick and choose instead of being led down a path.  Dunno, hard to put into words.  Guess I just like seeing fleshed out xpacs instead of new book + blisters.

4)  Speaking of supplements...new rulebook to combine them all or re-releasing the same books?

Having a master rulebook at this stage is paramount.  Makes no sense just re-releasing all the old books.  Combine, tighten, remaster=perfection.  Combined with above you can then create xpacs dealing with various operations touched on in the old books fluff.  Ex. "Battle for Cake", includes new spaceship boards, new minis (Nightmare XYZ, and why, because they were tasked in defending ships...Commondo ABC, why, to assault inbound legion ships), new unit cards, and new scenarios to re-fight the assault.

5)  No change to minis?

The old minis are tired in some cases, probably the Commandos the most.  Re-releasing via Kickstarter could allow for plastic sprues of the original Commandos and Nightmares (not unlike a sprue of SMs and Necrons).  Would really freshen up the look and tie nicely into the excellent PI sculpts.  Not gonna lie, I won't even consider buying new look UNE/Fantasian/Legion et al minis.  I love the old ones, period.  You take the old mini and alternate sculpt it, I'm in!

6)  New vehicles?

Not important to me, but if Planetstorm is re-visited, will the unmade vehicles be imagined?

Sorry for hitting you with all these questions, Marco, but consider my interest peeked to the max.

-Kevin

Excuse my rambling as well...doing this at work in between 'interruptions'.

thanks so much Kevin, some great points and I agree with you.

Yes the new boxed set would have all new art and components. I am still thinking Metal for now but depending on costs would consider plastics.

2. No planetstorm to start and if so in the future pared down and packaged with terrain.

3. Yes, rule sets packaged with minis together so you would have a starter set with applicable info cards and counters etc. New minis released with printed card info. Maybe Hero/Personality minis with some unique skills but still balanced.

4. New master book would be good. After the release of the new boxed set.

5.The old minis will still be good to use. New poses and such. New units to be planned out and released accordingly.

6.No new vehicles to start but maybe something if planetstorm resurfaces.


I welcome new and more comments  and questions. I especially want to know any ideas on getting the game back out and played in stores and at conventions.



Offline Karpov

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 01:20:31 PM »
thanks so much Kevin, some great points and I agree with you.

Yes the new boxed set would have all new art and components. I am still thinking Metal for now but depending on costs would consider plastics.

2. No planetstorm to start and if so in the future pared down and packaged with terrain.

3. Yes, rule sets packaged with minis together so you would have a starter set with applicable info cards and counters etc. New minis released with printed card info. Maybe Hero/Personality minis with some unique skills but still balanced.

4. New master book would be good. After the release of the new boxed set.

5.The old minis will still be good to use. New poses and such. New units to be planned out and released accordingly.

6.No new vehicles to start but maybe something if planetstorm resurfaces.


I welcome new and more comments  and questions. I especially want to know any ideas on getting the game back out and played in stores and at conventions.

Good on cards, good on hero figs(!!!), good on new poses if they 'fit'...metal is fine, I just see the trend being 100% PVC/plastic now.

As for re-starting it ahead of re-release (that's a lot or re-), I'll think about it over the coming days, but chew on this for now.

I think a free starter PDF (spruced up with nice graphics, painted minis, etc) with, say, half the rules and a starter mini pack (4 Commandos, 4 NM + 1 Fiend).  The biggest elephant in the room is tiles.  They are very pricey, but what I've done to spruce up my LoS is use map boards from Wargamevault.  For example, I use Galactic Heroes for Plantestorm leading up to an assault on base entrance using this map: https://www.wargamevault.com/product/151581/Heroic-Maps--Outstation-H97M.  Once engaged therein, I use LoS and the original tiles to flesh out the base underground.  There are plenty of ship maps as well that I use for something different.

Where am I going with this, well, once you decide what direction you want to go with the future tile solution, you could created a self contained 'playtest' map (again, maybe free) to use with the PDF and starter minis.  At that point, you could push the game all year leading up to the KS release.  Maybe call it something along the lines of Expeditionary blah blah blah and have the website release fluff monthly to kind unmask what the UNE are finding as they run into the Legion out in space.  For new players, this could entice them to follow along (and play) leading up to the formal release.

As for actually playing, well, we could run games at local conventions with those items in hand.  Maybe give out some 'coupon' that ties in with the future KS that allows for some exclusive (everything is about getting interest).  I can run games in 3 largish conventions here in PA (Cold Wars, Fall-In, Historicon).  Granted, it's more of a historical based event, but there are plenty of sci-fi/fantasy games played.  I could even create a 3D board of the free starter map to make it visually appealing and possibly garner an award (I've earned a few with my WW2 games I ran).  I still have some connections from when I had my own company/game and could plant the seed even further.

So in short, create a starter package that allows interaction with players, ties into KS directly (Expeditionary leads to all out war!), run games with possible incentive.  More ideas as they formulate...

-Kevin

Offline mongol

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2019, 01:14:25 AM »
1. Release the old models as many as possible. They are ugly and may not up to today's standard but people will like them. They are still one of my flavors.
2. Please make the miniatures in metal.
3. Fluffs are equally important. If you don't have the scenario books and templates, I believe that I still have a copy of all of them in my storage. In case you cannot recall, I was the one who faxed the entire black rule book to the developer (forgot his name) so that he could make the PC game.
4. If you are planning to re-introduce the tabletop game, please use high quality graphic and paper for the starter set. It will be more expensive but people want higher quality these days.
5. Best is to have the rules and templates in the starter box and the miniatures separately so the players can choose what they want. This is my wish only.
6. This also means that time line of the game will need to evolve.
I am glad that you attempt to bring it back. Appreciate that you are not going to make the old models invalid.

Offline EarthdogMP

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2019, 06:35:46 AM »
1. Release the old models as many as possible. They are ugly and may not up to today's standard but people will like them. They are still one of my flavors.
2. Please make the miniatures in metal.
3. Fluffs are equally important. If you don't have the scenario books and templates, I believe that I still have a copy of all of them in my storage. In case you cannot recall, I was the one who faxed the entire black rule book to the developer (forgot his name) so that he could make the PC game.
4. If you are planning to re-introduce the tabletop game, please use high quality graphic and paper for the starter set. It will be more expensive but people want higher quality these days.
5. Best is to have the rules and templates in the starter box and the miniatures separately so the players can choose what they want. This is my wish only.
6. This also means that time line of the game will need to evolve.
I am glad that you attempt to bring it back. Appreciate that you are not going to make the old models invalid.

1. yes, although I don't think most of them are ugly
2. yes
3. yup
4. yes
5. I think I will include the miniatures so you can game right out of the box but for the kickstarter I will release a boxed set without miniatures too.
6. it will evolve - 100 years

thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated.

Offline Upper Canada Games

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 01:16:06 AM »
Hi, I've been lurking on here for a long time and thought it was time to finally throw in my two cents.
I've been a store owner, an event coordinator for AoG and Reaper, and a distributor so I've been around the industry for a while.

I think it's important that you make some early decisions.
If you intend to go the Kickstarter route, which I can understand it's not cheap to get it off the ground, then be aware that there are a lot of gamers who are now avoiding it due to the number of failed and problem Kickstarter games that have failed or caused problems.
Also consider that it tends to annoy a lot of store owners. Store owners see a Kickstarter game and know that if its successful then the fans who are most interested have already bought into it, game sales then have to mostly come from entirely new players or supplements thus making it a harder sell for them. Finding a way to make the game lucrative for the stores would be a help.

Going with the old sculpts has the benefit of being cheaper but the original commandos weren't the best of sculpts, a new one or even a couple of variants would probably be a good idea.
A really great value starter set with rules unit cards map pieces and a basic unit for both sides is really needed. Keeping it as low cost as you can gives an easy point of entry and sale for stores then make sure to follow it up with individual figures and/or small unit packs. The idea of buying a section and then adding special figures is a good one.

As others have mentioned, fluff is huge...get the fluff out there. The fluff behind the game and the short stories were always incredible and will do a lot to drive a lot of sales.

Make sure to get something together to try and get players showing the game in the stores or get the store owners on board, this was always a game that looked great on the game table and was easy to show off.
As someone else suggested, a give away at a con is a big thing. When we ran for AoG at Gencon there would be a table running ongoing quickie intro games...join the intro and you get a coupon for a free mini....we used a little sample blister but you could easily pick the most mass produced cheapest mini for you that you can...offer an option of one machine or one commando perhaps. Make your tables look great, the VisiCalc grab is the key to attracting players in...same goes for a booth. Too many companies have a great product but poor presentation so don't grab the attention they need to drive interest.

I would look at the costs and consider the new poly resin for minis....metal is quick and easy for spin casting yourself but the resin is getting close price wise and tends to be easier for people to work with and carries detail really well. It's so widespread in new models these days.


Offline EarthdogMP

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Re: RE-Release of Miniatures
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2019, 04:55:27 AM »
Hi, I've been lurking on here for a long time and thought it was time to finally throw in my two cents.
I've been a store owner, an event coordinator for AoG and Reaper, and a distributor so I've been around the industry for a while.

I think it's important that you make some early decisions.
If you intend to go the Kickstarter route, which I can understand it's not cheap to get it off the ground, then be aware that there are a lot of gamers who are now avoiding it due to the number of failed and problem Kickstarter games that have failed or caused problems.
Also consider that it tends to annoy a lot of store owners. Store owners see a Kickstarter game and know that if its successful then the fans who are most interested have already bought into it, game sales then have to mostly come from entirely new players or supplements thus making it a harder sell for them. Finding a way to make the game lucrative for the stores would be a help.

Going with the old sculpts has the benefit of being cheaper but the original commandos weren't the best of sculpts, a new one or even a couple of variants would probably be a good idea.
A really great value starter set with rules unit cards map pieces and a basic unit for both sides is really needed. Keeping it as low cost as you can gives an easy point of entry and sale for stores then make sure to follow it up with individual figures and/or small unit packs. The idea of buying a section and then adding special figures is a good one.

As others have mentioned, fluff is huge...get the fluff out there. The fluff behind the game and the short stories were always incredible and will do a lot to drive a lot of sales.

Make sure to get something together to try and get players showing the game in the stores or get the store owners on board, this was always a game that looked great on the game table and was easy to show off.
As someone else suggested, a give away at a con is a big thing. When we ran for AoG at Gencon there would be a table running ongoing quickie intro games...join the intro and you get a coupon for a free mini....we used a little sample blister but you could easily pick the most mass produced cheapest mini for you that you can...offer an option of one machine or one commando perhaps. Make your tables look great, the VisiCalc grab is the key to attracting players in...same goes for a booth. Too many companies have a great product but poor presentation so don't grab the attention they need to drive interest.

I would look at the costs and consider the new poly resin for minis....metal is quick and easy for spin casting yourself but the resin is getting close price wise and tends to be easier for people to work with and carries detail really well. It's so widespread in new models these days.

Hi UCG, thanks very much for the input.

I know that stores would not be very happy about a kickstarter campaign as it cuts into the sales at stores. Likely, I think, many stores would not even consider carrying the game. I don't have the funds to launch it without enough sales so at this point it is the only way to re-release it. Perhaps if there was a system where stores could promote the product and get a cut of any KS sales that were made through their customer base.

What would you consider to be a good price for a starter set?

We will need to start doing larger cons once the finances are there but in the meantime we want to re-develop a following who would be interested in showcasing the game at smaller cons. We should have pieces to buy so new fans can actually buy it and play after trying it out. THe plan is to make the rules available for free download and have miniatures for sale but to kick it all off  the idea would be to create a generic template pack available through kickstarter which allows us to finance a template run for future players. In the kickstart template pack launch we would give links to the free rules and also give a bonus LOS counters package, allowing for people to essentially get the whole game for the price of the tempate packs. From there they can play with the chits but upgrade to miniatures when they like.

Have you any insight into manufacturers of resin miniatures?

thanks again and I hope to hear more form you.

sincerely,

Marco Pecota