Author Topic: Displaced throwing  (Read 1908 times)

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Offline peterpotente

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Displaced throwing
« on: March 14, 2013, 02:14:52 PM »

while translating the rules, there came up a few questions for the displaced throwing rule on page 30 of the Black Box rule.
1.May trooper Kowolchuk use displaced throwing if the  * -marked square would be occupied with another miniature.....frien d or foe?
2.And could the Nightmare use a covering-action or suppression to interrupt the troopers displaced throw?

1. I would say yes. There´s always a gap to let the  grenade fly.
2. I would say no. Generally, the throwing arm would be too small and too fast gone to take aim on it .


Offline bobloblah

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Re: Displaced throwing
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »
The answer to the first isn't really explicit in the rules, but I'd say the answer to the second is, thus:
  • Personally, I'd say, "No." as the thrower needs to trace LOF from the * square, which would not be possible under any other circumstances if it were occupied. But this is a bit arbitrary, and I'd go this way mostly to avoid making displaced throwing a little too good.
  • The rule explicity states that the figure is not moved to the * square. You're making an assumption that the commando's arm must protrude around the corner, but in the rule text itself it notes that this could just as easily represent bouncing the grenade around the corner. Moreover, the whole point of Displaced Throwing is to lob a grenade without getting shot.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 10:51:39 PM by bobloblah »
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Offline Warchariot

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Re: Displaced throwing
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 07:38:15 PM »
I would say no to number one also, as two figures can't occupy the same square. In displaced throwing the figure sees as if they are in the * square, he couldn't be there to see if another figure is in the square.
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Offline peterpotente

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Re: Displaced throwing
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 05:52:39 AM »
I´ve read it again and again and finally I would still say "yes" to 1......but

As it is mentioned.... it´s no MOVE by the miniature itself rather than it´s allowed to displace the LOF one square in front or to its side .( from where the targetsquare MUST be in the traced LOF .....I guess from preventing the player playing snooker ::).) That´s why the mini suffers no covering or suppressing fire AND ranges are still counted from the occupied square.

So in words to get an image,  the trooper stays where he is without showing any part of body or arm, throws the grenade  practically in an diagonally 45`arc which then bounces off the wall  and  jumps or rolls the remaining squares to the Nightmare.So the -1displaced-mod is in this case "somehow" equivalent to the -1/corner LOFmod for normal ranged attacks.

Then, in relation to the displaced LOF,........if  the * marked square would be occupied by any miniature , the troopers throw-roll would get (as mentioned on p.28 as " All roll modifiers apply")  an additional -1/ interposed figure or -2/ Assault Fiend(p.22)LOF modifier. So he evenly could throw through /over multiple figures, like in a normal throwaction. But making it very hard to hit the target square.

Generally I would say that a trooper don´t need to see an opponent or friend directly to know where they exactly are positioned around him....they are just represented in the troopers vision tactical HUD as green or red dots.....and for the Machines it is the monitoring Overlord-Computers  information exchange ability. That´s why hidden movement or ambushes are almost impossible.The players are always able watching the opponents move.

The other point is,being hypothetical picky ::) if there would be a protuding arm (which I was thinking about too while starting the thread) entering physically the *marked square able to prevent a mini to be placed there (or vice versa)... the range really should be measured  (which isn´t allowed)from the square where the grenade leaves the throwers hand ... reducing the range to 3squares , also making out of the "around the corner bouncer" a straight flyer.

And not less important , this "protruding arm-maneuver" should then also be allowed to be used outside a corridor in large room where you then would be able to choose the most unobstructed flightpath for your grenade into a crowd of opponents........ but I believe that the rule as it is written is intended to be used only in corridors......

But on the other side it should still be possible for a trooper situated in a doorframe of a big room to throw a grenade into that in, for example ,an 90´arc which means that there would be no wall where it could bounce off.

Meanwhile I believe that the truth lies somewhere inbetween.

For example. In a corridor where troopers can use walls to influence the flypath they may remain completely where they are. They may throw displaced through other figures  with the regular -modification and get no covering nor suppression fire.

In a case like a open room they cannot use the walls to influence the flypath but must protude( I really like that word ;D) their arm and lean out of cover to be able hitting the target square. Here, I would agree that it would take too much space for the arm and a additional figure ,but  because the figure has to expose itself it can be taken under covering and suppressing fire.
What do you mean?

« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 01:35:52 PM by peterpotente »

Offline Clark

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Re: Displaced throwing
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 10:58:05 AM »
`Displaced throwing`was the clunky term for allowing guys to toss grenades around corners or into rooms without exposing themselves to fire.  In answer to the first question, I would say yes with the proviso that you take the `firing past a figure`modifier.  In answer to number two that would be a no unless you can actually trace LOF to the troopers actual square rather than the one he is drawing his LOF from by using this.  Really, that is the whole point of the rule and using grenades in general.